(Al)most natural system

[bbochev]

We devised and played non standard system, comprising a lot of years experience. As we see it, system is Green according rules of WBF, but becouse system has quite different approach we need outside oppinion (and acceptance). Sysem is called UFO(Unlimited Forcing Openings) and comprise:

1) Type of hands:

BALANCED (max 1 doubleton, 5332 is OK) are evaluated in standard Milton Work points.

UNBALANCED are evaluated by "Tricks" - A=1.5, K=1, Q=.5 (singleton KQ not counted) + up to 2.5=(Longest-Shortest)/2. Responder count honors same way and adds distrib. "Tricks" when has fit - (Trumps-shortest)/2. There are some correcting factors when Tricks are non-integer (x.5) - uncounted singleton honor, J in support of top honor in long suit, uncounted length etc. BASEMENT IS: SUMM of BOTH HAND TRICKS = REAL TRICKS WE'LL USUALY MADE,PLAYNG IN OUR SUIT.

FREAK (7+ with singleton, 11+ in twosuits)

2) OPENINGS:

1♣ - 12+ Milton works

1 ♦♥♠ NT (for clubs) - 5+Tricks 4+ cards, onesuiter 6+, twosuiter suit+lower, three suiter suit + touching

2 ♣ - 4Major - 5+ tricks, 5+minor non touching (i.e. H+C/S+D)

2 ♦♥ - 5+Tricks, 5+Major - 4+minor non touching (i.e. H+C/S+D)

2 ♠ - 7 AKD suit, max Q outside ("gambling")

2 NT, 3♣♦♥ - transfer, preempt in next or around 10 winers 6+next suit + 5+ other

3 ♠ - Preempt with minors twosuiter

3 NT - preempt in ONE minor

4 ♣♦ Namyats etc.

(preempts are classical - -2/-3 in 1st/2nd seat)

3) FURTHER PROCEEDING - mixed - relays, constructs, limit etc.(Full system is about 65 pages and is written in Bulgarian :) )

 

Openings 1CDHS NT 2CDH have not upper limit and are ABSOLUTE forcing. Due to evaluation approach, lower limit is as low as 7 points in border distribution (i.e. Axxxxx, x, Kxx, xxx = 5 Tricks and worth opening)

 

Practise showed system give significiantly better results than standart approach.

 

 

So, if someone has comments or needs more info to discuss - post here or write me private bbochev@gmail.com

[mattias]

Openings 1CDHS NT 2CDH have not upper limit and are ABSOLUTE forcing. Due to evaluation approach, lower limit is as low as 7 points in border distribution (i.e. Axxxxx, x, Kxx, xxx = 5 Tricks and worth opening)

 

2.1 General

Average Hand a hand containing 10 high card points (Milton Work) with no distributional values

Weak high card strength below that of an average hand

Strong high card strength a king or more greater than that of an average hand

Natural a call or play that is not a convention ['special partnership understanding' as defined in Law 40B1(a)]

Length three cards or more

Shortage two cards or less

Long Match a match of 17 or more deals

Short Match a match of less than 17 deals

 

2.2 HUM Systems

For the purpose of this Policy, a Highly Unusual Method (HUM) means any System that ex­hib­its one or more of the following features, as a matter of partnership agreement:

A Pass in the opening position shows at least the values generally accepted for an opening bid of one, even if there are alternative weak possibilities

By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level may be weaker than pass.

By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level may be made with values a king or more below average strength.

By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level shows either length or shortage in a specified suit

By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level shows either length in one specified suit or length in another.

 

Seems pretty clear to me.

[bbochev]

2.1 General

Average Hand a hand containing 10 high card points (Milton Work) with no distributional values

Weak high card strength below that of an average hand

Strong high card strength a king or more greater than that of an average hand

Natural a call or play that is not a convention ['special partnership understanding' as defined in Law 40B1(a)]

Length three cards or more

Shortage two cards or less

Long Match a match of 17 or more deals

Short Match a match of less than 17 deals

 

2.2 HUM Systems

For the purpose of this Policy, a Highly Unusual Method (HUM) means any System that ex­hib­its one or more of the following features, as a matter of partnership agreement:

A Pass in the opening position shows at least the values generally accepted for an opening bid of one, even if there are alternative weak possibilities

By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level may be weaker than pass.

By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level may be made with values a king or more below average strength.

By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level shows either length or shortage in a specified suit

By partnership agreement an opening bid at the one level shows either length in one specified suit or length in another.

 

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

Average hand has NO DISTRIBUTIONAL power. To qualify unbal. hand with 7 points (K less) as good for open (5+ Tricks) hand should has MUCH DISTRIBUTION - 6+ cards and singleton AND AK :) Its not issue i think - look 1st definition.

[mattias]

Average hand has NO DISTRIBUTIONAL power. To qualify unbal. hand with 7 points (K less) as good for open (5+ Tricks) hand should have MUCH DISTRIBUTION - 6+ cards and singleton AND AK :) Its not issue i think - look 1st definition.

 

I don't think you are right. However, it is at least red because of the brown sticker 2C opening.

 

Red

Artificial: this category includes all artificial systems that do not fall under the definition of Highly Unusual Methods (HUM) systems [see definition below], other than Strong Club / Strong Diamond systems (see 'Blue').

 

Examples would be a system where one club shows one of three types - a natural club suit, a balanced hand of a specific range, or a Strong Club opener; or a system in which the basic methods (other than the no trump range) vary according to position, vulnerability and the like; or a system that uses conventional 'weak' or 'multi-meaning' bids (with or without some weak option) in potentially contestable auctions, other than those described in the main part of the WBF Convention Booklet

 

 

2.4 Brown Sticker Conventions and Treatments

The following conventions or treatments are categorised as 'Brown Sticker':

a) Any opening bid of two clubs through three spades that:

i) could be weak (may by agreement be made with values below average strength) AND

ii) does not promise at least four cards in a known suit.

EXCEPTION: The bid always shows at least four cards in a known suit if it is weak. If the bid does not show a known four card suit it must show a hand a king or more over average strength. (Explanation: Where all the weak meanings show at least four cards in one known suit, and the strong meanings show a hand with a king or more above average strength, it is not a Brown Sticker Convention.)

EXCEPTION: A two level opening bid in a minor showing a weak two in either major, whether with or without the option of strong hand types, as described in the WBF Conventions Booklet. Defensive measures are permitted for opponents as in 6 below.

 

 

Note that weak means high card strength below that of an average hand.

[han]

Practise showed system give significiantly better results than standart approach.

 

Good system.

[Free]

I don't think you are right. However, it is at least red because of the brown sticker 2C opening.

 

Red

Artificial: this category includes all artificial systems that do not fall under the definition of Highly Unusual Methods (HUM) systems [see definition below], other than Strong Club / Strong Diamond systems (see 'Blue').

 

Examples would be a system where one club shows one of three types - a natural club suit, a balanced hand of a specific range, or a Strong Club opener; or a system in which the basic methods (other than the no trump range) vary according to position, vulnerability and the like; or a system that uses conventional 'weak' or 'multi-meaning' bids (with or without some weak option) in potentially contestable auctions, other than those described in the main part of the WBF Convention Booklet

 

 

2.4 Brown Sticker Conventions and Treatments

The following conventions or treatments are categorised as 'Brown Sticker':

a) Any opening bid of two clubs through three spades that:

i) could be weak (may by agreement be made with values below average strength) AND

ii) does not promise at least four cards in a known suit.

EXCEPTION: The bid always shows at least four cards in a known suit if it is weak. If the bid does not show a known four card suit it must show a hand a king or more over average strength. (Explanation: Where all the weak meanings show at least four cards in one known suit, and the strong meanings show a hand with a king or more above average strength, it is not a Brown Sticker Convention.)

EXCEPTION: A two level opening bid in a minor showing a weak two in either major, whether with or without the option of strong hand types, as described in the WBF Conventions Booklet. Defensive measures are permitted for opponents as in 6 below.

 

 

Note that weak means high card strength below that of an average hand.

I'm not so sure the 2♣ opening is BSC. It depends on the definition of "5+ tricks". If it's worth an opening, then it's never BSC, but if it's weak and distributional you're right.

 

What is meant exactly with the 1♣ opening?

[bbochev]

I'm not so sure the 2♣ opening is BSC. It depends on the definition of "5+ tricks". If it's worth an opening, then it's never BSC, but if it's weak and distributional you're right.

 

Right. Lowest hand limit is like Kxxx, x, xx, Axxxxx (note AK and 6+ suit); AKQx, A, AKQ, AKJ10x is below upper limit...

 

1 club.... All balanced hands (incl.all 5332), that worth opening (12-37 :) Milton Work) open 1 club. Unbalanced onesuiters have 6+ suit (of course, AKDxx, Ax, xxx, xxx may open 1 S and than try to mimic as 6223)

[mgoetze]

Does anyone actually care about this WBF color-coding? Looking at CCs from top events it sometimes seems pretty random to me.

[Flameous]

Just a quick remark, you should probably switch 2♠ and 3♠ bids, simply for frequency reasons. (And add some strong option for 2S bid)

I haven't really played Fantunes, I don't have a good picture how they handle all those forcing openings. You have even more of them and really high too. Maybe they can work somehow but there's just no way to tell without any response structure.

Also it seems to me that your 1♣ opening is quite open to pre-empts. Natural systems have 1NT to split the NT range so when you get pre-empted, if you double and hold the balanced hand, it's 18-19. You have constant trouble when it goes 1♣ (3X) P (P), when to double, when to not.

[bbochev]

Just a quick remark, you should probably switch 2♠ and 3♠ bids, simply for frequency reasons. (And add some strong option for 2S bid)

I haven't really played Fantunes, I don't have a good picture how they handle all those forcing openings. You have even more of them and really high too. Maybe they can work somehow but there's just no way to tell without any response structure.

Also it seems to me that your 1♣ opening is quite open to pre-empts. Natural systems have 1NT to split the NT range so when you get pre-empted, if you double and hold the balanced hand, it's 18-19. You have constant trouble when it goes 1♣ (3X) P (P), when to double, when to not.

 

 

Thanks for comments. In fact 1♣ is most mature structure and worked extremely well!

Structure is:

1♣ - ?

1

♦

5+ HPC,asks strength - 1

♥

12-13,1

♠

14-15 etc. (!note 1 point difference!)

1

♥

0-4PC

1

♠

NT2

♦

5+ cards

♣

♦

♥

♠

(2 suits above) and 4-5 trics (like construction). Opener bid suit if no game interest and more other options if interest in higher contract. Strongest hands (6+ Tricks) go through 1

♦

.

After overcall through 3

♦

(incl) we play transfer responses 4+ tricks(incl. dbl).

NT is balance with stopper, transfer to overcall is FG at least 1 4th M etc. Above 3

♥

T/O dbls. (full schema is too long for post, yet simple enough, if interested, drop me email: bbochev@gmail.com)

Philosophy of system is: Major oriented, Play to make contracts, while make opps life dificult just with informative and worth opening unbalanced hand. When hand is balanced - no need to be agressive.

 

I have played bridge for more than 35 years and i'm still impressed how good "Trick" count is :) If contract is not best (from percentage point of view) it has at least playing chances.

[mgoetze]

I have played bridge for more than 35 years

 

In those 35 years, did anyone ever overcall 3♠ after you opened 1♣ and partner responded 1♦?

[bbochev]

In those 35 years, did anyone ever overcall 3♠ after you opened 1♣ and partner responded 1♦?

 

I didn't read this remark... Exept you asking advise - please send me PM.

[Free]

1♣ - ?

1

♦

5+ HPC,asks strength - 1

♥

12-13,1

♠

14-15 etc. (!note 1 point difference!)

~snip~

Only 1 point difference? You must be so proud! These days everyone agrees that distribution, suits and honour location are most important, while you're able to let opener describe his hand very accurately pointwise.

 

Sorry, but the 1

♣

opening and it's continuations are crap.

[mgoetze]

I didn't read this remark...

 

You answered without reading what I wrote? Spare yourself the effort...

[glen]

You answered without reading what I wrote? Spare yourself the effort...

There could be a language concern here, and the person might have meant "I didn't understand..."

[bbochev]

You answered without reading what I wrote? Spare yourself the effort...

Hi, not bad intention! I just wanted to say,that I can't see question - IMO your post is incomplete...

This only question looks for me without much sense - you meant i never bother myself about opps preempts?

[mgoetze]

Hi, not bad intention! I just wanted to say,that I can't see question - IMO your post is incomplete...

This only question looks for me without much sense - you meant i never bother myself about opps preempts?

 

No, I meant that I suspect your method only works because your opposition is very timid. I think sorting out 12+ points, unlimited, shape unknown, vs. 5+ points, unlimited, shape unknown, at the 4 level is impossible.

[Crunch3nt]

Only 1 point difference? You must be so proud! These days everyone agrees that distribution, suits and honour location are most important, while you're able to let opener describe his hand very accurately pointwise.

 

Sorry, but the 1♣ opening and it's continuations are crap.

 

I think you are being very unfair. His entire system is based around the fact that distribution is more important than HCP - that's why he lumps all balanced hands into 1 bid and uses all the other bids to describe shapes with unlimited point ranges no less. And then he is able to describe his balanced ranges into a 1 point range at a low level - clearly better in uncontested auctions than normal systems!

 

 

No, I meant that I suspect your method only works because your opposition is very timid. I think sorting out 12+ points, unlimited, shape unknown, vs. 5+ points, unlimited, shape unknown, at the 4 level is impossible.

 

Do you really think he is that worse off vs a "standard" player after preemption? His 1C is always balanced, whereas a standard 1C could be 11-19 HCP, clubs or not clubs, balanced or unbalanced. One, two or 3 suited or not. Its at least a draw in terms of preemptive effect, in fact he is probably ahead.

 

 

Keep the faith bbochev!

[Crunch3nt]

I do think the 2C opening is brown sticker - Needs to be a King above average strength not to be.

[mgoetze]

Do you really think he is that worse off vs a "standard" player after preemption? His 1C is always balanced, whereas a standard 1C could be 11-19 HCP, clubs or not clubs, balanced or unbalanced. One, two or 3 suited or not. Its at least a draw in terms of preemptive effect, in fact he is probably ahead.

 

If I'm playing a standard Walsh style, after 1♣-1♦, I know that my partner either doesn't have 4 hearts or is strong enough to balance. So with a 3433 minimum I have nothing to worry about and can just pass. Playing Polish Club, I know that my partner is limited to 7 points at most, so even with a 2425 16-count I can pass without too much risk of missing game. Etc.

 

OTOH, with the bbochev system, after 1♣-1♦, I know neither whether we have a 4-4 heart fit nor how strong my partner is. Won't this be a nice auction:

 

1♣ - (p) - 1♦ - (3♠)

Dbl - (p) - 4♥ - (p)

p - (Dbl) - p - (p)

p

 

Woohoo, we found our 4-4 heart fit! Unfortunately, we are both balanced and only have 18 HCP combined, so we went for 1100...

 

Etc.

[bbochev]

I think you are being very unfair. His entire system is based around the fact that distribution is more important than HCP - that's why he lumps all balanced hands into 1 bid and uses all the other bids to describe shapes with unlimited point ranges no less. And then he is able to describe his balanced ranges into a 1 point range at a low level - clearly better in uncontested auctions than normal systems!

 

 

 

 

Do you really think he is that worse off vs a "standard" player after preemption? His 1C is always balanced, whereas a standard 1C could be 11-19 HCP, clubs or not clubs, balanced or unbalanced. One, two or 3 suited or not. Its at least a draw in terms of preemptive effect, in fact he is probably ahead.

 

 

Keep the faith bbochev!

 

You grasp the principles of the system - shape is more important than strength, espacialy in competative situations! It's relatively easier to add strength to hand after opps inervention (biding feature or using dbl). When you are "unshaped" there are more problems - how to show at once more strength and shape?

[Free]

I think you are being very unfair. His entire system is based around the fact that distribution is more important than HCP - that's why he lumps all balanced hands into 1 bid and uses all the other bids to describe shapes with unlimited point ranges no less. And then he is able to describe his balanced ranges into a 1 point range at a low level - clearly better in uncontested auctions than normal systems!

If pretty much every 'distributional' opening needs 5+ tricks, then 1♣ will be opened on many types of hands, even distributional ones. As I said before (concerning 2♣ being BSC), it depends a lot on the definition of "5+ tricks" - which is not the same as 8- losers.

 

Most hands with 12-17HCP don't have 5 tricks imo. Axxxx-KQx-QJxx-x is a nice minimum but I only count 2 tricks, maybe 3. Give it the ♣A and it's still a 1♣ opener. That's why I asked what's meant exactly by the 1♣ opening, but I never got any response to that... So while all balanced hands are opened 1♣, a lot of unbalanced ones are opened 1♣ as well from what I can tell. :rolleyes:

[Flameous]

Note that he had his own way of counting "tricks" (Like AKQ points halved + distributional extra)

 

As far as I understand, 1♣ is always balanced.

[bbochev]

If pretty much every 'distributional' opening needs 5+ tricks, then 1♣ will be opened on many types of hands, even distributional ones. As I said before (concerning 2♣ being BSC), it depends a lot on the definition of "5+ tricks" - which is not the same as 8- losers.

 

Most hands with 12-17HCP don't have 5 tricks imo. Axxxx-KQx-QJxx-x is a nice minimum but I only count 2 tricks, maybe 3. Give it the ♣A and it's still a 1♣ opener. That's why I asked what's meant exactly by the 1♣ opening, but I never got any response to that... So while all balanced hands are opened 1♣, a lot of unbalanced ones are opened 1♣ as well from what I can tell. :rolleyes:

 

In fact "Tricks" are not exactly = 13-losers...

Tricks evaluation is used only with unbalanced hand opening and with trump support.

Opener: A=1.5, K=1, Q=.5 TRicks + (longest-shortest)/2 (up to 2.5)

Responder: AKQ same + (Trumps-shortest)/2

(Singeton K,Q do not count, when count is not whole number rounding depends on correcting factors...

UP: J with high honor in long suit, more than 5 difference - .6+void etc.,

Down: K, Q unsupported in short for BOTH hands suits, singleton A, support in shorter suit of partner)

Shortnes opposite no waste K, Q adds 1 trick for good trumps fit.

Summ of both hand Tricks = total tricks would be made playng on agreed suit

 

Example:

1.)

Opener: Axxxx,KQx, QJxx, x = 3.5 honors Tricks + 2 (♠-♣) = 5.5 rounded to 6 couse of J♦

Responder: xxxx, Axx, Kxxx, xx = 2.5 honors Trics + 1 (Trumps-♣) = 3.5 rounded to 3

2.)

Opener: Axxxx,KQx, QJxx, x = 3.5 honors Tricks + 2 (♠-♣) = 5.5 rounded to 6 couse of J♦

Responder: Qxx, xxxx, Axxx, Kx = 3 honors Trics + .5 (Trumps-♣) = 3.5 rounded to 3

3.) (lowest limit to open)

Opener: Axxxxx, x, Kxx,xxx = 2.5 honors + 2.5 distrib = 5

Responder: KDxx, xxxxx, Ax, xx = 3 honors + 1 distrib = 4

 

 

 

-----------

1.) summ = 9 + 1 (singleton club opposite xx and good trump fit) = 10 -> 1.) against the odds, but reasonable game...

2.) summ = 9 (but if you know x opposite Kx clubs, less)

3.) summ = 9 + 1 (singleton ♥opposite no lost K,Q and good trump fit) = 10

 

It's not "silver bullet and exaples are somehow "deviced", but statistics showed very reasonable contracts.

[Free]

Ok, I missed that part apparently, zzz... <_<