How To Begin?

[masse24]

[hv=pc=n&n=sakj84hakqj42d72c]133|100[/hv]

 

Playing 2/1:

You are vulnerable vs. not in 4th seat. The bidding has passed round to you and you pick up this.

 

If you open 2♣ an immediate double negative from partner is 2♥.

Also, if your partner does bid 2♦ waiting (and a GF), do you bid 2♥

planning to somehow bid and rebid ♠'s or, jump immediately to 3♥

showing a self-sufficient suit and asking for Q-bids?

 

If you do begin with 2♣...

After an initial 2♥ rebid can the ♠ suit ever be believed to be a genuine suit? (Thus the reason for my post) :rolleyes:

 

Another option, being two-suited, is to open 1♥ planning a ♠ jump.

(Drury not in effect 4th seat since openings generally sound)

 

What are your thoughts about opening 2♣ with two suited hands and reasons for either not doing it or insisting it is best with hands such as this? :blink:

[Yu18772]

I am not sure how 2/1 is relevant here, but....

 

My agreement is that 2♣ is any distribution with 22/23+ HCP or 17+ HCP with 8.5 top playing tricks and ONE self sufficient suit. From that point of view this is a really minimal hand for the second option, and then I will have to hide my 5 card other major - doesn't look particularly attractive.

 

In general 2♣ takes quite a lot of bidding space, so I don't like to open 2♣ on a hand where i foresee problems with hand description opposite weak partner - e.g. here if my majors were reversed I would maybe open 2♣, bid ♠ and then bid ♥ twice, but I am not going to be able to do it with the suits as is, and with your bidding agreements. So from my point of view - openning 2♣ forces me to misbid opposite the hand I most fear - misfit garbage. Also opposite that type of hand I will end up forcing game, go down when opponents dont have anything in terms of game etc....

 

On the other hand opening 1♥, rebidding 2♠ will describe my hand perfectly....and gives enough space for opponents to come into the auction, possibly punishing them. If opponents find a minor fit, my suits are still higher, but may be partner will dbl them for a number?

So the only problem I can see with this plan if you are worried that 1♥ will be passed around, which happens very rarely and usually would mean that partner has no fit for any major (otherwise opponents tend to balance). Once in a while I may write +200 on a score sheet......happened to me once in 5 years. The number of times I opened 1♥ was passed and was glad to play there was more :)

[Lurpoa]

yes, you need to agree on all those things with your partner.

 

[Fluffy]

Never open 2♣ with 2 suits, because you can never show both of them if the auction is competitive.

 

However this hand can be treated as 1 suiter if you need to, so you can open 2♣ and have an easy heart rebid if it gets competitive. Also being if 4th suit means that the bdding won't go overboard on next round.

 

 

In this concrete hand I would open 1♥ because I would like to know if partner has 4♠ as soon as possible, because only when has 4 of them I want to play in spades (7 spades if I can find that he has ♦A). But otherwise I would prefer to play in ♥. Even 6-1 vs 5-3 could be better.

[the hog]

This is a 1H opening for me. I wouldn't dream of 2C.

[han]

This hand is easily strong enough for 2C. However, that doesn't mean that you should open 2C. Even in the most friendly auction you will have a hard time showing 5-6 in the majors below 4S, and unfriendly auctions will be far worse. But after opening 1H, you will often be able toshow your majors suits. The only downside is that you won't quite show your strength.

[P_Marlowe]

Open 1H.

 

You just have 18HCP, a club void and 11 cards in the majro, the bidding

wont end with 1H.

 

The next bid by you will be a forcing bid, that showes spades, most likely 2S,

followed by repeating the spade suit, most likely 3S.

 

If they get in your way, chances are high, that you will still be able to bid

3S.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[whereagles]

Never open 2♣ with 2 suits, because you can never show both of them if the auction is competitive

 

I only see one suit and it's not a black one :)

 

2♣, followed by 4♥ over pard's negative.

[Quantumcat]

I have the philosophy that if the rebid after opening 2♣ doesn't almost completely sum up the hand, and you can possibly consider a 1-level opening, then I will open at the 1-level. I also have the philosophy that a hand made strong by distribution and not by high cards is better off being opened at the 1-level anyway. It is possible that 1♥ could get passed out and you are making game, but with such distribution the opponents are likely to come in anyway, and what could be a more perfect way to describe this hand than an auction something like 1♥ (2♣) pass (3♣) 3♠?

[chasetb]

This sounds like the perfect time to whip out a little treatment I use in 4th seat. 2♦ becomes a 2nd strong bid, either a GF balanced hand or 4M 5+ ♦, or a strong hand with ♦. This frees up several bids over 2♣ - namely 3♣ can be passed, 3♦ is a forcing hand with Clubs, and 4♣/4♦ are Major oriented hands.

 

Of course, most people don't talk about 4th seat auctions, but I would still open this 2♣. I see a 9.5 trick hand (WTC), and so I am opening it strongly (my partners always pass).

[mtvesuvius]

Clear 1♥, this hand will be painfully impossible to show after opening 2♣. I'd rather risk a rare passout than struggle to show this hand normally.

[mike777]

Clear 1♥, this hand will be painfully impossible to show after opening 2♣. I'd rather risk a rare passout than struggle to show this hand normally.

 

 

Ditto

[Free]

Never open 2♣ with 2 suits, because you can never show both of them if the auction is competitive.

So you always open 1♠ with AKQJ2-AKQJ2-Ax-x? <_<

[masse24]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

I too thought it a clear 1♥ bid, though I must admit I was a bit worried about it being passed out. :huh:

 

The full hand:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=st7h9876dat4cat65&w=s65h53dkq5ckq9742&n=sakj84hakqj42d72c&e=sq932htdj9863cj83&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=ppp1hp]399|300[/hv]

 

After the 1!H opening bid, can you suggest a reasonable auction to slam?

And...which slam? How high do you get? :blink:

[helene_t]

1♥-2♥

4♣-4♦

5♣-5♦

7♥

[P_Marlowe]

After a 1H opening from North, South will raise to 2H, and you wont

stop below 6H.

North will make a splinter bid (4C), but I am not sure I would bid 4D as

South - see the auction suggested by Helene, but even, if South indicates

weakness with a 4H bid, the North hand is worth another try - which will

wake up North - but it is not clear, that you will reach 7H.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[dcohio]

I switch to precision and open 1♣ ;)

 

1♣-1NT 16+; GF 8-10 balanced

2♣-2♦ xfer stayman; 4 card ♥

2♥-3♣ acceptance & beta ask; 4 controls (A=2 K=1)

3♦-4♣ control ask; Axx or void

4NT-5♥ RKCB; 2 no Q

6♥

[aguahombre]

I switch to precision and open 1♣ ;)

 

1♣-1NT 16+; GF 8-10 balanced

2♣-2♦ xfer stayman; 4 card ♥

2♥-3♣ acceptance & beta ask; 4 controls (A=2 K=1)

3♦-4♣ control ask; Axx or void

4NT-5♥ RKCB; 2 no Q

6♥

 

I don't think that sequence is a good advertisement for your version of precision. It would seem that, with a forcing club system, the huge favorite grand should be a cakewalk. Without such a mechanism, we can't find out about the two bullets, the four hearts, and the spade doubleton (or queen) ---so we languish in six also. But, if we switched to a FC, this must be child's play.

[ggwhiz]

I agree with the 1♥ opener but after pass and a raise to 2♥, West has to be in a coma not to bid 3♣. At these colours I'm shocked that West passed in 3rd position.

 

All roads lead to 6♥ for me.

[Quantumcat]

After the 1!H opening bid, can you suggest a reasonable auction to slam?

And...which slam? How high do you get? :blink:

 

1♥-3♦(1)

3♠(2)-4♣(3)

4♠(4)-6♥(5)

 

(1) 6-8 four-card raise

(2) cue

(3) cue, co-operating

(4) cue, would be unlucky for 5♥ to not make

(5) obviously pard is looking for a diamond control!

[aguahombre]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

After the 1!H opening bid, can you suggest a reasonable auction to slam?

And...which slam? How high do you get? :blink:

 

Gawd..anything. take this joke auction:

 

1H-2H

2S*-4H (2S totally random game try, except not short in spades)

4S-6H* (whatever you want, I got).

 

Like I said, we aren't getting to 7 unless we have a nice 1CF system.

[chasetb]

I don't think that sequence is a good advertisement for your version of precision. It would seem that, with a forcing club system, the huge favorite grand should be a cakewalk. Without such a mechanism, we can't find out about the two bullets, the four hearts, and the spade doubleton (or queen) ---so we languish in six also. But, if we switched to a FC, this must be child's play.

I agree. The key is if you are using CAB, to do it in SPADES first. Your sequence uses RKC anyway, so why not ask in the one suit that really matters? My sequence would look like this:

1♣-1NT 16+; GF 8-11 balanced (8-13 if UPH)

2♣-2♦ Transfer Stayman; 4 card Heart suit

2♥-3♣ Beta acceptance; 4 controls (A=2 K=1)

3♠-4♣ CAB ask in Spades; Qx(x)(x) or xx. Don't need to ask further, as Spades have no losers; anyways, we have an agreement that if you must ask again, that 4NT is the asking bid over Hearts being trump.

4♠-5♦ Kickback (RKC 0314 for Hearts); 2 but no Q♥

7♥ FTW!

[han]

I'd bid drury with the responding hand, and I think it is very clear. I'm very surprised to see Helene, who comes across as a sometimes reasonable person, bid 2H.