Game of Thrones

[blackshoe]

off topic: I don't fully understand the meaning of draw on the above post.

draw = attraction

[billw55]

And to answer Richard and dwar... I don't think it is that hard to like GoT, but the problem is, it deceives you!, it starts as a great Epic book, but it has nothing to do with Epic, its the opposite, and by the time you realize it is not about that it is too late and you are pissed off completely.

 

This is a bit personal, but I also though it was so totally artificial the way the author killed Eddard, he wasted a lot of time to make you think Eddard was smart, and then he makes child mistake which not only costs his life but is partially responsible of every kill thereafter.

I get where you are coming from. I read the first book and didn't like it at all. It was IMO poor fiction .. plenty of plot but no story, no long term narrative that I could identify. Characters presented as significant, with strongly indicated future plot lines, are trivially killed. To me it had very much a "making it up as he went" feeling.

 

Although I see how this could make better material for a television series, where a consistent long-term story is not really expected.

[hrothgar]

Characters presented as significant, with strongly indicated future plot lines, are trivially killed. To me it had very much a "making it up as he went" feeling.

 

Game of Thrones is clearly inspired (in part) by the War of the Roses.

 

If there is one thing that conflict showed its the ephemeral characteristic of major "characters"

 

Leading contenders for the throne and kingmakers like Richard of York and the Earl of Warwick were constantly being killed in battle or executed.

By the end of the wars, so many major players had been disposed of that the throne eventually fell to Henry Tudor.

 

I don't think that Martin is making this up as he goes along. Rather, he's doing a great job introducing more complexity into the fantasy genre...

[jjbrr]

While certainly @kendrasaurusrex and @acute_delirium are two of the most influential TV critics of our time, and we must concede that game of thrones does, indeed, suck, as fluffy so accurately foretold, the frauds at Grantland wrote a pretty good review of the most recent episode.

[billw55]

Game of Thrones is clearly inspired (in part) by the War of the Roses.

 

If there is one thing that conflict showed its the ephemeral characteristic of major "characters"

 

Leading contenders for the throne and kingmakers like Richard of York and the Earl of Warwick were constantly being killed in battle or executed.

By the end of the wars, so many major players had been disposed of that the throne eventually fell to Henry Tudor.

 

I don't think that Martin is making this up as he goes along. Rather, he's doing a great job introducing more complexity into the fantasy genre...

I suppose he has his sources. Perhaps it is a personal preference for me, I like character driven fiction.

 

I would not say that he "introduced" complexity to the genre: see the Wheel of Time for example, which is plenty complex. Still, it seems fair to say GoT is more complex than most.

[JLOGIC]

I think it's already one of the best shows ever personally, of course I don't know how it will end and it may fall if it gets worse, but as of right now it is highly acclaimed and pretty freaking awesome.

[JLOGIC]

There is a draw to watching real people in unreal situations, less so for watching unreal people in unreal situations. Sad that you can't enjoy the distinction, you are missing out!

 

Yep, very well said.

[kenberg]

Man, am I out of it. I didn't know it was a book and lacking this thread I would not have known it was a series. But I taped it last night and I will give it a try. Fluffy's comments give me pause. I can handle gritty, or I guess I can, but more than just sometimes I decide they can sling the grit without me. I'll give it a try though.

 

Fwiw, I went back to see my comment early in the thread. I made it through the first episode and dropped it. Becky, my wife, has seen them all. So maybe it's just another chick flick (comment intended as humor!). I have been busy lately so she watched the last two taped episodes tonight. She says it was a little heavy.

 

Becky likes the Dragon Mother and says I would probably like one of the Stark children. My older daughter once explained to my younger daughter "You have to understand your father, he likes brats".

 

Anyway, for better or worse, the violence seemed, even at the beginning, to go beyond my limits. Becky and I watched the Red Wedding link that Fluffy posted. I don't want to have the emotional outpouring that many had and really I even much less want to have the stoicism portrayed by a few of the watchers. I sort of get watching it with the intense involvement, but just sitting through grotesque violence with an unemotional expression seems, at least, odd to me.

 

Anyway, since I don't watch the show I mostly don't read the thread. I am willing to take the word of the many who say it is well written, well acted, etc. Just not for me.

[jjbrr]

PSA

 

if anyone were so inclined, they might be able to find season 5 episodes 1-4 on the internet

[kenberg]

Becky is looking forward to the new season. As mentioned, I opt out. Becky read a preview that recommended that viewers not get too attached to any of the main characters this season. I guess you could say that I am following that advice bigtime.

[Vampyr]

Becky read a preview that recommended that viewers not get too attached to any of the main characters this season.

 

So pretty much like every other season.

[y66]

Inane comment deleted. Sorry I don't have time to delete all the others.

[Vampyr]

:( :( :( :( :(

[jjbrr]

Has this show jumped the shark now that Martin is no longer steering the ship? Season 5 had a lot of elements that were just bad television.

 

The Sand Snakes, for example. Did a 13 year old write their storyline?

 

Still entertaining and I'll definitely be back for more in the spring, but I'm afraid GOT is turning into Lost

[Aberlour10]

Just for fun..

 

A german expert for olld real estates estimated values of the properities in Westeros>>>

 

 

http://static.apps.welt.de/2015/game-of-thrones/

 

( all details in the exactly description are unfortunately in german language..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vampyr]

Just for fun..

 

A german expert for olld real estates estimated values of the properities in Westeros>>>

 

 

http://static.apps.welt.de/2015/game-of-thrones/

 

( all details in the exactly description are unfortunately in german language..

 

They are in English too.

[Aberlour10]

They are in English too.

 

yepp, I did not notice the english version icon.

 

http://static.apps.w...s/index_en.html

[blackshoe]

heheh.. :P

[Mbodell]

Has this show jumped the shark now that Martin is no longer steering the ship? Season 5 had a lot of elements that were just bad television.

 

The Sand Snakes, for example. Did a 13 year old write their storyline?

 

Still entertaining and I'll definitely be back for more in the spring, but I'm afraid GOT is turning into Lost

 

I think the changes to the text were much worse here. Some of the earlier changes (like Arya interacting with Tywin) were mostly to the good early on, plus the changes hadn't had a chance to build on themselves. Now I think there are a few problems:

 

First, the GRRM books have been mostly expanding in scope across the first 5 books, so it is easier to be true to the text in season 1, you don't really need anything other than Winterfell, The Wall, Kings Landing, and a small amount of Dothraki. By book 5 you need dozens of fully realized places, with a cast of 100 or more "name" characters. When you simplify some of these locations and plots, you strip away the nuance, and end up with things like the Sand Snakes as shown in the TV series, versus as developed in the books.

 

Second, as mentioned the changes are building on each other. Leaving out a number of key people and places in the TV series makes it harder to realize the full set of stories (Iron Islands, Lady Stone Heart, Young Griff, etc.) and as a result compromises need to be made about plot points and simplifications.

 

Third, GRRM not being as involved does change from having one consistent story tellers voice steering the narratives. They are all supposed to be in sync, and they are all supposed to be moving to the same place, and GRRM was doing some review of season 5 and wasn't ever really steering the ship directly even in season 1, but still it is clear now - especially with book 6 mostly not yet out (not counting early releases of random chapters) and filming set to start on season 6 in the next couple of months, it is clear there will be even more divergences coming.

 

All that said, the show is still well worth watching.

[jjbrr]

snip

 

end up with things like the Sand Snakes as shown in the TV series, versus as developed in the books.

 

snip

 

But on this point is where I think we're discovering that the ship is too large for Benioff and Weiss to steer themselves. They're just not skilled enough at maneuvering each storyline the way they need to be handled at this point, especially given there might only be a couple more seasons of the show. The Sand Snakes as they appeared in Season 5 were totally useless. How many tv show watchers even know their names at this point?

 

I don't think it's as much an issue that some nuance is being lost, but rather that our new storytellers are incompetent, I guess is my point.

 

And yes, I suppose it should be obvious to everyone why it takes GRRM so long to write the books; but perhaps that level of care and planning is necessary with a beast this large, in which case B&W were doomed to failed.

[jjbrr]

I think it was grantland that made a good point about the scene where Sam asks if he can go to Old Town and abandon the Wall. B&W simply botched that scene. Jon should have ordered that Sam go to Old Town, because that would be an honorable thing to do, consistent with Jon's development as a leader.

 

Instead of the audience feeling Jon did the right thing, as he always does (and yet you know nothing...), instead we're left with Sam asking to abandon his friend when he needs him the most so that he can enjoy the sunshine and his girlfriend.

 

What a complete airball of a scene.

[Mbodell]

I think it was grantland that made a good point about the scene where Sam asks if he can go to Old Town and abandon the Wall. B&W simply botched that scene. Jon should have ordered that Sam go to Old Town, because that would be an honorable thing to do, consistent with Jon's development as a leader.

 

Instead of the audience feeling Jon did the right thing, as he always does (and yet you know nothing...), instead we're left with Sam asking to abandon his friend when he needs him the most so that he can enjoy the sunshine and his girlfriend.

 

What a complete airball of a scene.

 

Agree. But I already feel like the Northern parts were wrecked by the execution of Mance versus Lord of Bones, and the lack of Mance being sent to save Ramsy's wife, and the lack of switching of babies with Gilly and Mance (royal blood and all that). Not to mention Sansa being in the North instead of still with Littlefinger.

[jjbrr]

We can only hope all these deviations from the books are setting up the triumphant return of rickon

[Phil]

Just finished Season 5 on HBO Now.

 

You could make each episode three hours each and they still wouldn't be long enough to keep the storyline intact. The magic of season 4 with Rickon and Bran is on hold I suppose.

 

Sand Snakes look like something from a Buffy episode.

 

GOT is one of my top 5 HBO series of all time, but its in danger of losing its premier league status.

[y66]

Any thoughts on whether we'll see Jon Snow again?

 

I'm betting we will if only because the strange suddenness of his demise only makes sense if viewed as something they squeezed in as a setup for his eventual return.