2N or 3N/1m: Distinction Without a Difference?

[gurgistan]

I have noticed that in SAYC

2N/1m is made with 13-15hcp and 3N/1m is made with 16-17hcp.

 

In 2/1 it is

2N/1m is made with 10-12hcp and 3N/1m is made with 13-15hcp.

 

Why the different standards in the two separate systems?

[manudude03]

In 2/1, a lot of people play that 1D-2C is still GF. When that's the case you don't have a convenient way of showing a balanced 10-11 hand over 1D. It can't really go in 1NT since partner won't raise with 14 or unbalanced 15. I never liked the SAYC ranges myself. 3NT is 13-15 just because at that range, it's still unlikely that slam is on.

 

In SAYC, if you wanted to invite, you can bid 1D-2C-2D-2NT. 2NT would then show 13-15 and hence 3NT is 16-17(18).

[gurgistan]

In 2/1, a lot of people play that 1D-2C is still GF. When that's the case you don't have a convenient way of showing a balanced 10-11 hand over 1D. It can't really go in 1NT since partner won't raise with 14 or unbalanced 15. I never liked the SAYC ranges myself. 3NT is 13-15 just because at that range, it's still unlikely that slam is on.

 

In SAYC, if you wanted to invite, you can bid 1D-2C-2D-2NT. 2NT would then show 13-15 and hence 3NT is 16-17(18).

 

Thank you very much for this. You explained it perfectly.

[Gerben42]

Surprisingly, you will find that most people who claim to play SAYC actually mean 2NT as invitational, not as forcing..

[Siegmund]

The 11-12 2NT bid is one of my least favorite bids in 2/1-as-played-by-most. I'm much happier putting the 11-pointers through an inverted raise (or treating 1D-2C as a kind of 'inverted minor nonraise' sequence) and having the jump be forcing. Comes in handy both for 4333 13-pointers as responder where you only want to be in the major game if opener has a fit and is very lopsided, and for the 18-19-pointers that bid 2NT then bid again.