overcall or double

[stan63]

IMP pairs, vul v. not, RHO deals and opens 1♣. You hold:

 

♠AJ875

♥Q954

♦AK5

♣4

 

Which is it?

[quiddity]

I would overcall 1♠, because I'm strong enough to bid again to show this hand. For example:

(1♣) 1♠ (3♣) P

P ?

 

Now I have an easy double to show a takeout of clubs with 5 spades.

 

It is often impossible to show the 5th spade after starting with a takeout double:

 

(1♣) X (3♣) P

P ?

 

You can double again but will never be able to show the 5-card suit. Bidding spades yourself after doubling shows a different hand, a spade hand which was too strong to overcall (17+ points).

[JLOGIC]

1S

[nigel_k]

Always 1♠ with this shape unless really strong.

[rogerclee]

Always 1♠ with this shape unless really strong.

I don't know what you mean by "really" strong, but I would double with a hand like AQxxx AKxx KJx x, it is just too easy to miss 4H (or any heart fit) by overcalling 1S. With a hand like AQxxx AQxx KJx J I would just bid 1S.

[stan63]

Interesting, thanks.

 

At the table I chose 1♠, which passed out and went down one. Partner held a stiff spade and ♦QJTxx, and criticized my choice.

[pio_magic]

Partner held a stiff spade and ♦QJTxx, and criticized my choice.

And if you doubled he would have 3/3/4 in ♠♥♦ and you would likely miss the 5/3 fit. Criticize your p for not having the 2.6 spades he statistically should show up with :D

 

 

P

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

the war, what to do with a 5431 shape, when the 5 card suit is a

major is won by the side, that overcalls.

 

So - 1S is the bid of the majority, espesially since we are talking

about spades.

 

X is reasonable, it is just not the bid most player would choose.

 

Do what you think is sensible, but be consistent.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Quantumcat]

I would overcall 1♠, because I'm strong enough to bid again to show this hand. For example:

(1♣) 1♠ (3♣) P

P ?

 

Now I have an easy double to show a takeout of clubs with 5 spades.

 

It is often impossible to show the 5th spade after starting with a takeout double:

 

(1♣) X (3♣) P

P ?

 

You can double again but will never be able to show the 5-card suit. Bidding spades yourself after doubling shows a different hand, a spade hand which was too strong to overcall (17+ points).

 

The above is quite important for beginners to read.

 

You always want to think about what your options will be later in the auction. If you are strong enough for two bids, you will be showing more about your hand by bidding 1♠ then double. If you double first, you have to double the second time too, then partner doesn't know anything other than you have a decent hand with a takeout.

 

If, however, you are NOT strong enough for two bids, you want to make a takeout double right away. This is because if you overcall 1♠ then it comes back to you, you are not strong enough for a second bid, and partner doesn't yet know that you also have hearts.

 

This is the same principle as when responding to partner's 1♣ opening when you have five diamonds and four of a major. If you are strong enough for two bids, you bid 1♦ then can rebid the major at whatever level is necessary. However if you are NOT strong enough for two bids, you bid the major and forget about your diamonds, because if you are only strong enough for one bid, showing the major should take priority. Even if you get the opportunity to bid 2♦, you can't because that would be shoing five of your first bid suit (the major).