The Path Less Traveled

[mtvesuvius]

Playing in a regional KO, IMPs, V vs NV, you pick up Kxx AK9xxx Kxx 9, after RHO opens 2♠, you bid 3♥, LHO bids 3♠, partner bids 4♥, RHO bids 4♠, and you choose to double, ending the auction.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sk62hak9642dk83c9&w=sq94ht75daqt5cqt3&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=2s3h3s4h4sdppp]266|200[/hv]

 

You lead the ♣9 to dummy's ten, partner's jack, and declarer's ace. Declarer now plays the ♠A, and you follow small, along with everyone else. On the second round of spades, you win the King, dummy playing the queen, and partner pitching the ♣2: You play Upside-Down count and attitude.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s6hak9642dk83c&w=s9ht75daqt5cq3]266|200[/hv]

 

What should partner's ♣2 mean?

What about a higher club? A diamond? A heart?

 

You've taken one trick so far. What do you return now?

[Hanoi5]

Who am I playing with? Can partner think I have a doubleton club and is encouraging me to continue? I think I'll play my top hearts, even though a singleton ♥Q isn't as likely as a small card.

[mtvesuvius]

Partner is an excellent young player (but not a junior).

[Hanoi5]

Partner is an excellent young player (but not a junior).

 

Then I don't know. But a small heart should be the Queen and maybe a small club just means he controls the suit and we shouldn't worry, just cash the hearts? I'm not underleading my hearts without help from partner. Or do you also play upside down preference?

[MrAce]

If we dont play small ♥, we are planningto take 1♥+1♠+2♣ hoping declarer to hold something like 6124 because if declarer has 6133 and ♦ J we are screwed big time.

 

If declarer has ♦ J we are screwed even when he has 6124, lets say we cashed top 2♥, he ruffed, cleared trumps, played ♦ J (we have to cover) ruffed last ♥ and cashed all ♠ squeezing pd in minors....

 

Too much trouble, i play small ♥ :P I'd play pd for ♥Q rather than ♦ J

[Trumpace]

Do signals really matter on this hand?

 

Underleading heart to get CK and club ruff seems to be a reasonable (and probably the only) chance of setting the contract.

 

If declarer is 6-1-3-3 with the DJ, that seems to be the only defense to beat it.

 

If declarer is 6-1-2-4 with DJ9 or C86, again it seems like that is the only defense.

[kenrexford]

♦K.

[gnasher]

Partner will definitely play me for a singleton club. I can't imagine a hand where I'd lead from ♣9x on this bidding.

 

Partner's ♣2 is suit preference, meaning "not a heart". If partner had ♥A or ♥K, he would throw an encouraging heart. If he had ♥Q he'd throw a high club. ♣2 covers everything else.

 

I don't see any need to panic. Declarer opened a weak two and has already shown up with a prime 9-count. If he has ♥Q as well, he doesn't have any other high cards. If he has AJ10xxx Q xxx A8x, he's going to go one down as long as we don't do anything silly.

 

I don't see what ♦K switch is supposed to achieve, and it risks that declarer does something inspired with AJ10xxx Q xxxx Ax.

 

I would just cash a top heart and then exit with a trump. If declarer knocks out partner's club and then runs trumps, partner keeps the same number of hearts as dummy, and I keep all my diamonds.

 

The hand I've given declarer looks like a one-level opening to me, but I'd believe my partner's carding.

[han]

Why exactly can you not lead a club from 9x?

[gnasher]

Why exactly can you not lead a club from 9x?

 

Because:

- Partner didn't bid 4♣

- Clubs might be dummy's suit

- Clubs might be declarer's side suit

- 9x is not a particularly safe holding to lead from

- If it's wrong it will often be too late to recover

- If we have a club ruff we will usually still be able to get it after cashing a heart

- A speculative lead like that is inconsistent with the penalty double of 4♠.

 

Why don't you try to write down a hand, consistent with the bidding, where you would lead a club from 9x?

[Hanoi5]

Kxx AKQxx Kxx 9x

[Fluffy]

Partner will definitely play me for a singleton club. I can't imagine a hand where I'd lead from ♣9x on this bidding.

 

Partner's ♣2 is suit preference, meaning "not a heart". If partner had ♥A or ♥K, he would throw an encouraging heart. If he had ♥Q he'd throw a high club. ♣2 covers everything else.

 

I don't see any need to panic. Declarer opened a weak two and has already shown up with a prime 9-count. If he has ♥Q as well, he doesn't have any other high cards. If he has AJ10xxx Q xxx A8x, he's going to go one down as long as we don't do anything silly.

 

I don't see what ♦K switch is supposed to achieve, and it risks that declarer does something inspired with AJ10xxx Q xxxx Ax.

 

I would just cash a top heart and then exit with a trump. If declarer knocks out partner's club and then runs trumps, partner keeps the same number of hearts as dummy, and I keep all my diamonds.

 

The hand I've given declarer looks like a one-level opening to me, but I'd believe my partner's carding.

Why the queen?, what happens with the Jack? it will also sometimes be the key, even the 10 might one day be the entry. All can be codified, but the problem is, how much is codified with a partner whoom you never talked about it?

[MrAce]

Deleted

[whereagles]

At first it seems like an easy heart underlead, but pard's signal seems strange. He knows we have AK of hearts (declarer opened weak and showed 2 aces already), so he would definitely have encouraged with ♥Qxx.

 

Also, why didn't declarer finesse in spades? All this seems fishy. I'll just go gnasher and lead a top heart.

 

There's a real danger opener has 6124 with singleton ♥Q and opened an off-side weak 2, in which case the heart underlead will give it away.

[ulven]

 

What should partner's ♣2 mean?

What about a higher club? A diamond? A heart?

 

You've taken one trick so far. What do you return now?

 

I'd lead a low H. I expect a discouraging H without A/K/Q and an encouraging H with A/K.

Absence of H discard = Queen.

 

When partner's Q holds, it's obvious I have a stiff club.

 

Low club discard is count, suggesting original even number (UDCA). Location of K of clubs is known in the auction.

[Hanoi5]

I'd lead a low H. I expect a discouraging H without A/K/Q and an encouraging H with A/K.

Absence of H discard = Queen.

 

When partner's Q holds, it's obvious I have a stiff club.

 

Low club discard is count, suggesting original even number (UDCA). Location of K of clubs is known in the auction.

 

Partner saw declarer's ♠A and ♣A, why wouldn't he ask for a heart with the Queen?

[gnasher]

Kxx AKQxx Kxx 9x

 

If you say you'd lead a club from that, I believe you, but can you tell me why you would you lead a club? To me it looks obvious to lead a top heart and then decide how to defend.

[ulven]

Partner saw declarer's ♠A and ♣A, why wouldn't he ask for a heart with the Queen?

 

Sometimes we have to choose among "equal alternatives".

The club would convey length in that suit and possibly suggest only 3 hearts, with the low heart for 4H-5C instead of 3H-6C.

[gnasher]

Why the queen?, what happens with the Jack? it will also sometimes be the key, even the 10 might one day be the entry. All can be codified, but the problem is, how much is codified with a partner whoom you never talked about it?

 

I think that an encouraging discard in the suit is more positive than a suit preference for that suit.

 

Give that, it would normally be as I suggested in my earlier post: with A or K, he knows it's safe to encourage, so he throws a low heart; with Q, where he's not sure, he gives suit preference in another suit. With the jack maybe he'd throw a middle club.

 

In this particular situation, declarer is known not to have A or K. Hence an encouraging heart should show the queen, and a suit preference for hearts should show the jack. However, partner obviously doesn't think that.

 

I don't think we should expect partner to throw a discouraging heart. In general it's unwise to allow declarer to isolate the heart guard in one hand. Even we can both work out that on this particular deal it's safe to do that, I don't think we should change the meanings of all our other signals because of that.

[han]

Why don't you try to write down a hand, consistent with the bidding, where you would lead a club from 9x?

 

That doesn't seem so hard. With

 

Kxx

AQxxxx

Kx

9x

 

I think a club lead is at least reasonable.

[gnasher]

That doesn't seem so hard. With

 

Kxx

AQxxxx

Kx

9x

 

I think a club lead is at least reasonable.

Well personally I'd lead a heart from that, and I'm not sure that a club would even be my second choice. Why would I guess which of my doubletons to lead?

[phil_20686]

I suspect that partner with three hearts will not wish to pitch a heart under any circumstances. From four hearts he might pitch a heart. A club pitch tells us he is long in clubs. Long enough that a pitch can never cost so he will cater to us having a singleton. Thus he must have at least 5 clubs. So perhaps the real question is why does RHO, with two aces and a card in our suit, feel that it is not right to defend 4H opposite a 3S bid that could be almost anything.

 

I think that its impossibly inconsistent for declarer to have stiff Q of hearts. It just cannot be true on this bidding. Would he really bid 4S here when he is beating 4H opposite Kxx spade and Jxx hearts 40% of the time? (i.e. spades 2-2). That way lies madness.

 

The only question then, is whether declarer will generally need his club ruff for ten tricks. If declarer were 6-2-0-5 and partner had KJ32 clubs or similar, then he might find a club pitch. Hard to beleive that he would not pitch a diamond in that case. At least this would make sense of declarers bidding. However now partner is smoking something special. If declarer is 6-1-2-4 might he squeeze partner or me?

 

My head tells me that underleading the heart is the most legitimate chance for one off, playing partner for x Qxx ?xxx KJxxx, but if partner has the 7 of clubs as one of his cards, then this is is going off anyway on a spade return unless declarer has the J of diamonds. I mean, this hand is so wierd. Perhaps I should just cash a top heart. Perhaps I should interpred the club as saying that partner has two club tricks. Then again, perhaps he is not as sure as use that I cannot have a doubleton. My gut tells me that something mega wierd is happening.

[kayin801]

Partner could have x, Qx, Jxxxx, KJ8xx give or take a minor suit spot and couldn't signal for a heart since he would be uncomfortable baring his Q.

[gszes]

if it were up to me---since I might have only one discard I would try to make it as descriptive as possible

 

telling p we have club suit locked up is nice but hardly rates to be as important as other information.

 

P did not lead hearts for a reason since I can play a LOW heart to show A or K I can play a high heart

to deny the Q (which can be a very important piece of information to p -especially if they want a club ruff-

 

My failure to play a high heart should promise the heart Q (not J please) and in this case clubs under control.

 

Using this inference I would lead the heart deuce to make certain p leads back a club (hopefully by cashing the K

and leading another club. This LOP will lead to down 2 if rho is 6133 and no dia J.

 

As an aside p can tell that declarer has no more than 2 hearts and one heart pitch (from Qxx or xxx)will almost never ever ever cause the partnership any harm and might be of tremendous benefit.

[kenrexford]

This debate about whether to show the heart Queen or not is cracking me up. I mean, I can imagine creating a hand where partner does not have the Ace and King of hearts. What I cannot create is a hand where partner has no club card, only the spade King, at most the diamond King, and not two of the top three honors in hearts. Hence, if partner must have two of the top three hearts, then you can clearly encourage with the third top heart, whatever that may be.

 

As a related aside, partner won't have a problem with upside-down attitude. If he doesn't have a clearly small heart, he has QJ8 and can easily play the Queen.

 

Also, what squeeze would partner be concerned with? When it matters, he has both minors, and he's the one squeezed. How could he need to save three hearts?

 

If partner doesn't signal hearts, he doesn't have the Queen. Or, he messed up.