Forcing or not?

[terramille]

Playing SAYC with prepared club I opened 1C, LHO bid 1S and partner bid 2C.

He turned up with:

92

K5

QT64

AK983

I thought his bid was non-forcing and that a double was the most appropriate forcing bid.

We do not play inverted minors.

What do you think he should have bid?

Thanks

[wyman]

Even playing inverted minors, many pairs play this sequence is nonforcing. By most standard agreements, 2C is a constructive club raise, and he has way underbid. X here is negative and shows 4 hearts, so that's out. Pard should have cuebid 2S showing at least an invitational hand, forcing, with club support.

[ArtK78]

Agree. Cue bid 2♠.

[jillybean]

Perfect 2♠

[aguahombre]

And if you do play inverted on after overcall, that one is still a 2♠ cue. 2C can be inverted with a spade stop, 2S without.

[Free]

Inverted minors are usually off when opps intervene. Raising to 2m is just making some noise to fight the part score battle. With stronger hands and support, it's best to cuebid. This is a perfect hand for 2♠ imo.

[helene_t]

It is impractical to play 2♣ as forcing here in a 5-card major system. You don't want to commit to more than 2♣ if you have some 8 points and 4-card support.

[BillPatch]

Using standard SAYC, a jump raise to 3 over an simple overcall is a limit raise(10-12). Thus 2♠, partner's proper response, would show a stronger raise. In all standard 2 over 1 texts, however, 2♠ is an invitational or better raise as the previous replies have stated.

[aguahombre]

Using standard SAYC, a jump raise to 3 over an simple overcall is a limit raise(10-12). Thus 2♠, partner's proper response, would show a stronger raise. In all standard 2 over 1 texts, however, 2♠ is an invitational or better raise as the previous replies have stated.

 

Actually, The Standard American Yellow Card itself is very clear that a jump raise of 1m in competition is preemptive. The Yellow Card's booklet of agreements is contrary to that, stating bids in competition are the same as bids without competition. Anyway, neither 2C nor 3c is forcing in SAYC.

[pooltuna]

Playing SAYC with prepared club I opened 1C, LHO bid 1S and partner bid 2C.

He turned up with:

92

K5

QT64

AK983

I thought his bid was non-forcing and that a double was the most appropriate forcing bid.

We do not play inverted minors.

What do you think he should have bid?

Thanks

 

 

2♠

[gwnn]

Yes, it is forcing or not.

 

In this case, it is not.

[BillPatch]

Actually, The Standard American Yellow Card itself is very clear that a jump raise of 1m in competition is preemptive. The Yellow Card's booklet of agreements is contrary to that, stating bids in competition are the same as bids without competition. Anyway, neither 2C nor 3c is forcing in SAYC.

 

(header)ACBL STANDARD YELLOW CARD. . .

(header)MINOR OPENING. . .

(header)RESPONSES

Double Raise = limit (10-12 pts.)

Double Raise = Preemptive over Double

From Photo on Cover Ned Downey and Ellen Pomer. Standard Bidding with SAYC. 2005.

 

I believe that the source refutes aquahombre's claim that the Card specifies preemptive double raises over all competition, and not just the special case of over the takeout double. As aquahombre has noted, the booklet with the Yellow Card agrees with the interpretation that normally double raises with or without competetion are limit. So do Downey and Pomer.

[aguahombre]

Yep, just after a double. My bad.

[pooltuna]

Yep, just after a double. My bad.

 

I thought it used Jordan

[Lurpoa]

2♠, no doubt....

[menggq]

obviously cue bid 2♠ for sure,forcing and more like to play 3N or forcing to 4♣ at least.if PD hv ♠ stoper wd bid 2N and then u raise to 3N as well;if PD hv no ♠ stoper wd bid 3♣ or others;if PD hv single ♠ and hv extra hcp wd bid 4♠=SPL slam try...