mtvesuvius Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=s6542hkj762d86c94&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=pp3d4s5d]133|200|Both the opponents and partner are national champions, what is your call over 5♦?IMPs.[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 5♠. We are in an FP when opps are obviously saving so I show my weakness by bidding now rather than next round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 What are you talking about? I have to contract for 11 tricks in order to say I expect to make no more than 10? That logic escapes me B-) Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrecisionL Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Pass. You have less than partner expects you to have and he did not double first. It is not a forcing pass situation in my partnerships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 5♠ but I am in no way convinced it's correct bid. I suppose it will work often enough. Even if we don't make sufficient % of the time they will sometimes bid 6♦. The idea of pass being forcing here wouldn't even occur to me. Crazy ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayin801 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I think pass is forcing because I can't think of a hand partner can have on this auction which he'd let them play in 5♦ undoubled. If RHO weren't passed then obviously this isn't a FP. 5♠ seems normal, no matter which round suit partner has "length" in we have a good hand for him (either ruffs or a suit). Any hand where partner has the ♥A and the ♠3 should be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 if pass is forcing then that's my bid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 if pass is forcing then that's my bidIf 6♠ happens to be making, then I bid that... I don't really see how this can be a FP situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful. And this is why I suck at bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 How can this not be a forcing pass situation? ... having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful. O.K., so is knowing that partner will not pass 5D the same as a "FP situation", making pass and pull stronger, etc? Which, of pass, 5♠, or double, with this hand, will give partner the necessary information --remembering we can't go back from 5S? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 O.K., so is knowing that partner will not pass 5D the same as a "FP situation", making pass and pull stronger, etc?Yes, if it's purely the auction that tells us that partner won't pass. Why wouldn't it be the same? Not that it matters here, though. I have four-card support and the values I have are offensive. 5♠ looks clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 The poll is wrong. The 5 level belongs to us....but I pass :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 The poll is wrong. The 5 level belongs to us....but I pass :)The 5-level belongs to Nigel ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Pass is forcing. So passing doesnt make sense to me, if u wanna defend 5♦ then DBL, if u wanna play 5♠ bid it, if you wanna turn on pd for slam pass and then lift his DBL to 5♠. I want to play 5♠ and i am bidding it without giving hope for slam to pd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I think it's a clear forcing pass situation, but I also don't see how it matters. I seem to have an obvious 5♠ bid either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 If this is 5S, how do I show an A better?How can partner guess we make 6S or 7S or just near 5S? KJxxx side suit enough with 4-support?I can't believe partner has S:AKxxxx H:AQx D:x C:Axxand only jumped to 4S - not eg. Q-bid/Dbl first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I'm trying to see how to suggest any upside.Clear 5S has little/no downside - makes on near make.But, what if partner is going up based on 5S raise? Take those lumps? Expect pass to X then 5S if A added - pass and pull strong?I think this is a slam help vs. competing problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful. I disagree. It is clear that responder is saving, but OPENER may well have a decent hand. You also know pard is probably counting on a trick or two from us to make 4♠. Perhaps we have those 1-2 tricks, but we certainly don't seem have 3 to take the push to 5♠. It is just possible that 5♦ and 4♠ both fail, in which case pass is the better bid. I would consider to have a real problem if pard dbls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 How can this not be a forcing pass situation? RHO is a passed hand, LHO has preempted white/red in third seat, and partner has jumped to game showing a strong hand. The ability to defend 5D undoubled in this scenario does not make logical sense. Yes I'm sure you can come up with some layouts where they are cold and we are down 500, but it is so unlikely I wouldn't even worry about it (and even then, we haven't lost much). On the other side having the ability to make a more informed decision about whether or not to bid 5S over 5D is really useful. I bid 5♠ fast, maybe it will make maybe they will save.I don't see how we gain by added "precision". I want to pass with nothing, bid with something and double if I can't resist licking my chops. Color me yellow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 . I would consider to have a real problem if pard dbls. Seriously ? If partner doubles then it's easy 5♠ his double should be competitive and I see 4trumps support and lack of trump stack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 5♠ Partner said he is not prepared to stop in 3♠ so must be close to a 2♣ opening and this must be FP situation. This also adds up with the fact, that one opponent has passed, another preempted and you yourself are weak. Since I am not prepared to play 5♦ doubled when partner has shown a long and strong ♠ suit, I bid 5♠ immediately. If you bid 5♠ after partner doubled 5♦ you are inviting 6♠, not that you could not make up your mind what to do on the previous round. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 5♠. This is a forcing pass situation. I cannot be sure whether both sides are making 10 or 11 tricks here, but it is often the case that when both sides have a fit it is right to bid one more, especially at IMPs. The rewards for bidding (making 11 or 12 tricks in spades when opps make 9 to 11 tricks in diamonds) exceeds the risks (both sides make 10 or fewer tricks). Clearly, I am not strong enough to pass and bid 5♠, and doubling (or passing and passing partner's double) is aiming at too small a target on very limited information. Quite frankly, I think 5♠ is clear, and the more difficult problem may come on the next round of bidding if there is one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 5♠.Quite frankly, I think 5♠ is clear, and the more difficult problem may come on the next round of bidding if there is one.I agree it's clear but will it really be that difficult a problem? Will you be thinking of accepting a slam try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Partner said he is not prepared to stop in 3♠ so must be close to a 2♣ opening and this must be FP situation. Except that he could just have 8.5-9 playing tricks and hope for the best knowing we wouldn't raise his 3♠, something like: KQJ9xxx AQJx x x Doesn't look like 2♣ opener but is quite possible 4♠ bid.Now if you want to play a system which require you to remember 100's of situations (would it be forcing if 5♦ bidder isn't passed hand ? would it be forcing if they play 3[diamonds} as "constructive" ?, would it be forcing if both side were nonvul ?) and force you to double them just because you have this 13count and partner have nothing, all in exchange for maybe slightly more accurate bidding, which also makes opponents decisions easier, then good luck to you :-) Also what exactly partner would double with after your "encouraging" pass ? I mean he jumped to 4♠ when he could've doubled with powerful hand and something like 6-3-1-3. I wonder what kind of hands which were suitable for 4♠ now want to defend after your fp. Won't be easy to make those decisions without very detailed partnership understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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