kgr Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sa2hkj32da2ckj432&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1np2c2sd(takeout%20%5B4cH%5D)p3sp3n4s4np]133|200[/hv]You play 4 suit transfer and partner starts with Stayman.If 4NT is RKC: you play 41/30.What do you bid now? (Partner did mean the bid different then I understood it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Looks like rkcb. I am responding according to the state of the matter that I hold 3 keycards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Partner didn't like the 500+ penalty in 4S. Did double of 2S promise 4xH? Or primes? Else?What would pass mean? Not 4xH? Typical 1NT? Stay out the way? What would 3C instead mean? Liking offense?I'm expecting S:Qxxx and 5xgood diamonds - source of tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 If this auction has promised a heart fit I suppose it could be RKC for hearts. I don't think it can show minors. Anyway, I would take 4NT as to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Partner didn't like the 500+ penalty in 4S.Did double of 2S promise 4xH? Or primes? Else?YesWhat would pass mean? Not 4xH? Typical 1NT? Stay out the way?Pass would mean: nothing extra to say. Most hand without 4cH.What would 3C instead mean? Liking offense?Yes, A good hand with Good 5cC or 6cCI'm expecting S:Qxxx and 5xgood diamonds - source of tricks.Why 5cD and not C? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Anyway, I would take 4NT as to play. So why partner didn't bid 3NT a round before if he wants to play 3NT now ?If he is too strong, why didn't he bid 4NT ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 So why partner didn't bid 3NT a round before if he wants to play 3NT now ?If he is too strong, why didn't he bid 4NT ?He was asking for a spade stopper which he didn't have himself. Now that we have it, he wants to play 4NT. He has a good 6-card minor along with his four hearts. Now we are told that South's double shows four hearts. Then I suppose 4NT is RKC for hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 RKC for hearts. This auction is in the same genre as 1♥ - 4♠ - 4N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Now we are told that South's double shows four hearts. Then I suppose 4NT is RKC for hearts.We didn't 100% agree that DBL shows 4cH, but if DBL is takeout then it logically shows 4cH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 The main question here is: does partner promisse a 4 card M or not? Also, what are responder's other options with strong balanced hands, especially without 4M? If this is real stayman (promissing a 4 card M), then we have a ♥ fit, which means 4NT is RKC and we have 3 keycards. I'll bid 5♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 we obviously have a heart fit, why did we bid 3NT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachy Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 We didn't 100% agree that DBL shows 4cH, but if DBL is takeout then it logically shows 4cH? Did you agree that Dbl is takeout even? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 We didn't 100% agree that DBL shows 4cH, but if DBL is takeout then it logically shows 4cH?No, you can have a maximum 2=3=4=4 for example... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 MP's[hv=pc=n&s=sa2hkj32da2ckj432&n=s3ha4dkq543cqt765&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1np2c2sdp3sp3n4s4np5dppp]266|200[/hv]My partner intended 4NT for the minors and I thought it was RKC for Hearts.My partner started with 2♣ and wanted to follow that with 3♣ as minor suit stayman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 MP's[hv=pc=n&s=sa2hkj32da2ckj432&n=s3ha4dkq543cqt765&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1np2c2sdp3sp3n4s4np5dppp]266|200[/hv]My partner intended 4NT for the minors and I thought it was RKC for Hearts.My partner started with 2♣ and wanted to follow that with 3♣ as minor suit stayman.What was wrong with 3♦ over 2♠, planning to bid 4♣ later on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I don't think "take-out" is a good definition of this double. If it doesn't promise four hearts then it is not clear if 3♦ from North would be forcing. Of course if you play non-promissory Stayman then 3♦ shouldn't be forcing anyway, what else can North do with a 2353 8-count. Btw, what would 2NT by North in response to the double mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I don't think "take-out" is a good definition of this double. If it doesn't promise four hearts then it is not clear if 3♦ from North would be forcing. Of course if you play non-promissory Stayman then 3♦ shouldn't be forcing anyway, what else can North do with a 2353 8-count. Btw, what would 2NT by North in response to the double mean?We didn't have a 100% agreement that DBL promises 4c♥, but we would both expect it to be 4c♥.I would take 3♦ from my partner as forcing, my partner wasn't sure of that.We played 4-way transfers (1NT-2NT transfer to ♦), so 2♣ does not always promise a 4cMajor with an invitational hand.I would take 2NT after the DBL as to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 MP's[hv=pc=n&s=sa2hkj32da2ckj432&n=s3ha4dkq543cqt765&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1np2c2sdp3sp3n4s4np5dppp]266|200[/hv]My partner intended 4NT for the minors and I thought it was RKC for Hearts.My partner started with 2♣ and wanted to follow that with 3♣ as minor suit stayman.Let me get this straight.If there had been NO interference, is your Minor Suit Stayman forcing ? ( ...or can 3C be passed ? ) . 1NT - 2C2H - 3C! = MSS, forcing ? If so, would 3C! ( by Responder ) over partner's DBL ( showing Hts), still mean the same in this interference auction ? [ In otherwords is your MSS "system still ON" over 2-level interference ?? ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Let me get this straight.If there had been NO interference, is your Minor Suit Stayman forcing ? ( ...or can 3C be passed ? ) . 1NT - 2C2H - 3C! = MSS, forcing ? If so, would 3C! ( by Responder ) over partner's DBL ( showing Hts), still mean the same in this interference auction ? [ In otherwords is your MSS "system still ON" over 2-level interference ?? ]We didn't really agree MSS, but I would take 3♣ as forcing; also after the interference I would take 3♣ as forcing.But I don't think that in either case I would take it is as MSS after I showed ♥....Probably not a good problem for the forum, given all these uncertainties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 yeah, probably better first to work out what the double means and what the follow-ups are. Then it might be easier to decide on the meaning of 4NT afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I would take 2NT after the DBL as to play.As usual, it seems strange to play this as "to play", or even as INV. Imo you should play Lebensohl here. This way you can distinguish between a garbage stayman and stronger hands, with or without ♥. For example (quickly invented, so it may have some issues):Pass = converting to penalty2NT = Lebensohl...3♣ = obligated......pass = weak hand with long ♣......3♦ = garbage stayman with (4)5+♦, probably 3♥......3♥ = garbage stayman with 4♥......3♠ = GF without ♥ fit and without a clear call?3m = natural and forcing, can still have ♥ imo3♥ = INV, 4♥3♠ = GF with 4♥? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 yeah, probably better first to work out what the double means and what the follow-ups are. Then it might be easier to decide on the meaning of 4NT afterwards. I would start by working out what 2♣ means. do you really have a way of showing 55+ in the minors starting with 2c even if they don't interfere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 ...or you could just open 1C and reverse into hearts. It doesn't really look like a 1NT opening to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 ...or you could just open 1C and reverse into hearts. It doesn't really look like a 1NT opening to me.Really? IMHO this hand is nowhere near reverse strength. And the honor structure also looks more like a balanced hand than a 2-suiter to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Pard should be locked up for the crime of confusing bidding. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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