relknes Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 I am currious about a wide ranging weak NT when non-vulnerable. Specifically, I am considering opening 1NT with 10-14 balanced when non-vulnerable and a more typical 12-14 balanced when vulnerable.What are the implications of such a system. Obviously the frequency would be very high, as would the preemptive value, and the cost would be in accuracy, but are the followups workable? Most systems are tied to a 3 point range, which makes me think that a wider range must have severe drawbacks that I'm not seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 I think you'd lose way too much precision in constructive bidding. You might get me to consider it in 3rd NV, but not anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 It's entirely practical, but you need a complicated system of responses to make it work. I wouldn't do it in a BI partnership. I played 11-16 first and second, 14-19 3rd and 4th with 15-20 1N overcalls too (which worked very well). What we did was to play 4 card invitational or better red suit transfers (with 6 step responses, 3 2 point ranges without 4 card support, then 3 with), with 2♣ as the "bucket bid" covering lots of hand types. You tend have to use things like 3♠ showing up in several auctions as "I want to sign off in 3N, or if I bid again it means something completely different" with 3N instead of 3♠ as choice between 3N and something else in order to crowbar everything in, but it worked well. Where we had issues was with the middle range which is not GF opposite a minimum invite, so I would squeeze the middle range to a single point in a 5 point range. My memory of exactly how that system worked is a little hazy as I haven't played it for 15 years as that partner moved away and the new one has never learned it. The plus points of 11-16 are that you're rebidding 1N on 17-19, meaning you don't go off in 2N with 18 opposite 5, and if dummy decks with an 8 count, the defence doesn't know if they're trying to beat 1N or prevent the second overtrick, so you get a lot of cheap overtricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relknes Posted March 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Would it make it more playable to have it mean 10-14 balanced with no 4 card major, to avoid missing a 4-4 fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 It's fun but you will lose some imps. It's hard to come up with a very accurate system over it other than some sort of range ask stayman whereupon 2♦ shows 10-12 and the rest are maximum, or the other way around. Be mentally prepared to accept some of the very bad results but make no mistake there will be good ones too. Overall it has a negative expectancy but that's not all there is to a treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayin801 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 We use 10-a bad 14 in 3rd seat but it's in a big club context and we open almost all all 10 counts so we aren't worried about missing game, and we then just attempt to find the best contract after that. We use a 2NT response to show a hand that might make 3NT on a long minor suit that couldn't preempt before based on vul and seat, but that's our only strong move. Playing it in 1st seat, you need to be comfortable a level higher, since you'll need to invite more frequently even when opener has a min. I thought the 15-20 was interesting since you'll more frequently be safer a level higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantumcat Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 It is perfectly fine, but you will miss some games playing such a wide range. If you narrow the range down a bit you'll find it a lot of fun. Having a wide range will put lots of pressure on your partner if there might be a game on, and you will find it loses its pre-emptive value and you miss some games and also get to contracts going off when you should have stayed in 1NT. I play a 10-12 1NT in first and second seat when not vulnerable, and have altered responses which are more preemptive than constructive. The main attraction is that when playing Matchpoints, when not vulnerable, the first pair to get to 1NT usually wins the board. This is because if the opponents make seven tricks, they only get 50 points instead of 90. And if they make 8 tricks they only get 100 instead of 120. So if you have a system that allows you to get to 1NT as quickly as possible when not vulnerable, you will gain loads of matchpoints every session! The other point is that the opponents cannot overcall at the one-level before you reach 1NT, so they may miss the required lead to either beat it or get it two off, OR they may miss the opportunity to play in a two-level partscore. The benefits mentioned above mean that it is only really effective in 1st and 2nd seat. Once you are in 3rd seat, if you should be doubled you probably will be. These are my responses (if you are interested): 2♥, 2♠, 3♣+ are to play. This gets you in and out of the auction with maximum speed. The opponents get much less chance to come in. Conversely over a transfer, opponents can freely make a takeout double knowing it can't get left in. 2♣ is a puppet to 2♦, which shows any invite if you bid again (4+ card suit).Follow-up: opener passes with three or bids 2NT with two if not accepting the invite. He can bid 3NT or game in the suit, raise to three, or bid a new suit if accepting. 2♦ is game-forcing stayman, could have a balanced five-card major. 2NT is unbalanced and game-forcing, usually a five-card major and another suit.Follow-up: You bid suits you have values in up-the-line until somebody decides whether 3NT is an ok contract, and bids it or a suit game. Optional extras:-4♣ shows both majors and slam interest, 4♦ shows both majors and no slam interest. This takes pressure off 2NT and allows more pre-emption.-Slam interest in a major starts with 2♣ and rebids 3 of that major.-Slam interest in a minor starts with 2♦ and rebids 3 of the minor. When playing a very weak NT, you also need a very good runout system. This is what I play and I have found it very effective: - redouble is clubs or two suits that are not clubs.- 2♣ is clubs and another suit.- 2♦, 2♥, 2♠ are to play.- Pass is happy, or nowhere to run to. Opener redoubles with a five+ card suit, after which you try to find it or pass if you were happy. This structure allows you to show any hand with two suits, and to play in 2♣ if that is your suit (which other runout methods may not allow). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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