2/1 bidding

[ArcLight]

All White, Imps

 

Pard deals and opens 1 Spade

 

What do you respond with:

 

S: K T x

H: A

D: Q x x

C: K x x x x x

 

 

(2C, 1NT forcing, Other - if so what)

(3S shows 4+ Spades so that bid is out. )

[kenrexford]

2♣. 12 HCP plus distribution and a fit? Plus the spade 10 is really nice.

[Free]

2♣, I have a GF hand with ♣ and apparently I don't have a way to show a GF 3 card raise immediately.

[whereagles]

Yeah, 2♣ followed by the systemic nr. of spades seems normal.

[helene_t]

Yes, 2♣. Next turn bid spades at the lowest level.

[ArcLight]

The holder of those cards bid 1NT forcing, I bid a red suit, then he jumped to 4 spades ending the aution.

 

I ended up with 12 tricks. The clubs rolled in (I had Ax and ruffed them good after pulling trumps).

 

After the hand I said "P, 2 Cubs was the correct bid, not 1NT"

He told me I could have had a bad opening hand (thats my problem). I told him he still has to make the system bid of 2 Clubs. He said something, and I said "I know I'm right".

 

So he booted me. LOL

 

And he is a Silver life Master. Self rated Expert or Advanced.

 

(He was a weak declarer also - as I watched him misplay a couple of hands).

 

I was just annoyed for being booted when:

1 - I was not particularly obnoxious (other than saying 2 Clubs was the right bid, and then saying "I know I'm right")

2 - I was right, (and at all the other tables no one bid 1NT, only him)

 

Its interesting to me how often these high master point players make really fundamental errors. Another SLM Expert misbid a hand, and then told me he was a bridge teacher. Teaching advanced classes such as "Hold Up Plays". :lol:

 

I'm not saying I'm all that great, but I'm still surprised at how bad a lot of these "experienced players with lots of MPs" are.

 

Maybe I will have to lie and change my profile to "Expert" so I can play with other lying advanced or advanced intermediates who rate themselves as experts, as opposed to the beginners who self rate themselves advanced.

But I'd rather not lie :angry:

[kenrexford]

Sort of like a good football player graduating high school. Maybe they can read. Maybe not. The graduation tells you little.

[whereagles]

Arc, it's annoying, yes. But this is normal: it's humans and humans are very aggressive :rolleyes:

[wyman]

Don't teach or argue in the MBC. Just play, and ignore partner's mistakes. If they are too frequent or egregious, thank the table, leave, and join a new table.

 

Sure, discuss these things with a regular partner, but even then, try to keep things civil, and agree on a method of mediation. For example, agree to post hands here when you disagree about them.

[jillybean]

And he is a Silver life Master. Self rated Expert or Advanced.

 

 

We all know self rated BBO experts are a dime a dozen. Players who also feel the need to advertise how many Monster Points they have accumulated are worse, they are rarely as skilled as they think they are and have an inflated ego to go with it.

[ArcLight]

Don't teach or argue in the MBC. Just play, and ignore partner's mistakes. If they are too frequent or egregious, thank the table, leave, and join a new table.

 

Sure, discuss these things with a regular partner, but even then, try to keep things civil, and agree on a method of mediation. For example, agree to post hands here when you disagree about them.

 

 

I think you are 100% correct.

 

Its just that I WANT my mistakes pointed out.

If I misbid, I won't learn unless I am told. If I misdefend or misdeclare, I want to know.

 

What I find myself doing is saying "Last Hand" a lot when I see how bad a random pick up pard is. I never criticize their card play. I was just matter of factly mentioning what I thought the right bid was. Oh well.

 

TYP <_<

[quiddity]

I would have booted you too. Your (pickup) partner took a view. You showed him up at the table and continued to argue the point a second and third time. What, you don't think he noticed that he missed slam? It sounds like you were being a jerk.

[Finch]

I was just annoyed for being booted when:

1 - I was not particularly obnoxious (other than saying 2 Clubs was the right bid, and then saying "I know I'm right")

2 - I was right, (and at all the other tables no one bid 1NT, only him)

 

1. If that's not particularly obnoxious, what on earth do you think is?

2. In my regular 2/1 partnership I might have bid the same way as your partner (1NT then jumping to 4S when partner doesn't pass). Whether or not this hand is worth a 2/1 depends on how light you like to open in first position NV with a 5-card spade suit. Responding 1NT doesn't strike me as a particularly serious 'error', if error at all.

[Bbradley62]

I was just annoyed for being booted when:

1 - I was not particularly obnoxious (other than saying 2 Clubs was the right bid, and then saying "I know I'm right")

2 - I was right, (and at all the other tables no one bid 1NT, only him)

1. If that's not particularly obnoxious, what on earth do you think is?

2. In my regular 2/1 partnership I might have bid the same way as your partner (1NT then jumping to 4S when partner doesn't pass). Whether or not this hand is worth a 2/1 depends on how light you like to open in first position NV with a 5-card spade suit. Responding 1NT doesn't strike me as a particularly serious 'error', if error at all.

1. Frances: OP is from New Jersey... entirely different scale for behavior. (I lived there for 9 years.)

2. OP: Instead of starting with an attack, you could have asked pard what his sequence showed. It shouldn't take long before you get to "either you have game-forcing values opposite a minimum opener or you don't". Also, you cannot compare your partner's sequence to auctions at other tables without knowing what systems were being played there. In MBC, many pairs will be playing SAYC, so 2♣ would have different requirements for them.

 

It's funny that you tell us "I ended up with 12 tricks. The clubs rolled in (I had Ax and ruffed them good after pulling trumps)", without bothering to include the fact that opps had cashable ♦AK, so 6♠ was a terrible contract, or that you won 3+ IMPs on the board.

 

PS: I'd bid 2/1GF even with ♦xxx instead of ♦Qxx, but my regular partner doesn't open dreck.

 

[hv=myhand=M-11399185-1298293089]360|270[/hv]

[Free]

LOL, nice find!

 

After the hand I said "P, 2 Cubs was the correct bid, not 1NT"

He told me I could have had a bad opening hand (thats my problem). I told him he still has to make the system bid of 2 Clubs. He said something, and I said "I know I'm right".

After seeing the hand I wonder what he actually said. Since you conveniently avoided telling us that you missed a terrible slam, you might have conveniently skipped this part as well.

 

Name calling removed to save Ben some work.

[helene_t]

Even without a diamond lead, and with clubs breaking 3-2, a heart lead could still create issues (it makes on this deal because N can't overruff clubs, although declarer still has a guess in spades if S ruffs the 3rd club with the nine). Spades 4-1 could also be a problem. All in all a very bad slam which you hopefully wouldn't have bid anyway, even if E has responded 2♣.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

you need to decide for your own, if you want to insist on game or not,

the decision will be depend how often how light your p opens.

 

If I decided to go via 1NT, I would only bid 4S after a 2C response,

othewiese I would invite.

My hand does not get stronger, when opener bids a suit, I happen to hold

a singleton Ace.

 

I can live with both decision, most likely I would insit on game.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[ArcLight]

I would have booted you too. Your (pickup) partner took a view. You showed him up at the table and continued to argue the point a second and third time. What, you don't think he noticed that he missed slam? It sounds like you were being a jerk.

 

I don't think I showed him up, as I was not impolite when i mad ethe comment. It's not like I said

"Pard, you misbid that, it was obviously a 2C bid". And I didn't say anything else after that, other than when pard made some mor ecomments telling me I was wrong, and I said I was correct.

 

I appreciate your comments and based on your temperment will certainly now play with you LOL :lol:

[ArcLight]

1. If that's not particularly obnoxious, what on earth do you think is?

2. In my regular 2/1 partnership I might have bid the same way as your partner (1NT then jumping to 4S when partner doesn't pass). Whether or not this hand is worth a 2/1 depends on how light you like to open in first position NV with a 5-card spade suit. Responding 1NT doesn't strike me as a particularly serious 'error', if error at all.

 

 

Frances,

One of the resons I posted here was to ask peoples rsponses of 1Nt vs 2C. Most had thought 2C was pretty obvious, though it may be close

 

And no I dont think what I said was particularly obnoxious.

Had I said something like "You made a bad bid, and completely misvalued your hand" or something like that, it would have been obnoxious.

 

I don't think we have to live in a complete vacuum and its ok to mention that you don't agree with a pick up pards bid. Pick up pards will sometimes suggest a different bid than the one I made after the hand. Sometimes they are right, and more often they are not. But I don't take great offense.

[ArcLight]

LOL, nice find!

 

 

After seeing the hand I wonder what he actually said. Since you conveniently avoided telling us that you missed a terrible slam, you might have conveniently skipped this part as well.

 

ArcLight, you were being a jerk at the table. You tried to teach someone who doesn't want to be teached, you deserved to be booted.

You're also being a jerk at the forums for not being completely honest. You skipped relevant details which are not in your favor.

 

 

1. "Pard, 2 Claubs wa sthe bid, not 1NT" was all I said. I don't remember the details after that. It was something along the lines of not getting too high, etc. Nothing nasty.

 

2. >>ArcLight, you were being a jerk at the table. You tried to teach someone who doesn't want to be teached, you deserved to be booted.

 

Well I certainly wont play with you :lol:

I sometimes get comments form othe rpick up players about bids. Sometim sthey are right and their bid is better than what I bid. I don't get mad at them, since they are making a reasonable observation in a non insulting way.

 

 

3 >>You're also being a jerk at the forums for not being completely honest. You skipped relevant details which are not in your favor.

 

What details did I skip? I don't care about good vs bad slam. I think 2C was the better bid, and was annoye dthe opp booted me for saying "Pard, 2 Claubs was the bid not 1NT". I frequently see crazy bids and will point them out.

1m 1S, 3S - the 3 S bid was based on a minimum opening bid. So I told my Expert pick up pard "Pard, 3S shows a much stroonger hand than what you held".

I think thats part of playing pick up games. I wouldn't offer advice all the time. Maybe on an occasional hand. And not on declarer play, like if they take a practice finesse.

 

My "gripe" was being booted for making the commend "Pard, the bid ws 2C not 1NT", then after being told I'm wrong and the entire expoalantion saing I don't agree, I know I'm right".

I hardly think thats caus efor booting someone.

[ArcLight]

1. Frances: OP is from New Jersey... entirely different scale for behavior. (I lived there for 9 years.)

2. OP: Instead of starting with an attack, you could have asked pard what his sequence showed. It shouldn't take long before you get to "either you have game-forcing values opposite a minimum opener or you don't". Also, you cannot compare your partner's sequence to auctions at other tables without knowing what systems were being played there. In MBC, many pairs will be playing SAYC, so 2♣ would have different requirements for them.

 

It's funny that you tell us "I ended up with 12 tricks. The clubs rolled in (I had Ax and ruffed them good after pulling trumps)", without bothering to include the fact that opps had cashable ♦AK, so 6♠ was a terrible contract, or that you won 3+ IMPs on the board.

 

PS: I'd bid 2/1GF even with ♦xxx instead of ♦Qxx, but my regular partner doesn't open dreck.

 

[hv=myhand=M-11399185-1298293089]360|270[/hv]

 

 

It's not that s;lam as so good, it was lucky, it was the 1Nt bid I was disappointed with. I'm not saying we would have eneded up in slam, or whether its a good one. With a somewhat better hand, slam could be great.

 

Also - living in New Jersey doesn't mean one is mor eor less polite, though there are probably a highe rconcentration of impolite people in teh Metro New York region.

I think you are generalizing, and I don't think the way I phrased my comment was an attack.

Had I said' Pard you misbid that, it was obviously a 2 Club response" I think that would have been more in your face.

 

I specifically said 2/1 bidding in the topic description. Not SAYC.

 

 

>>OP: Instead of starting with an attack, you could have asked pard what his sequence showed. It shouldn't take long before you get to "either you have game-forcing values opposite a minimum opener or you don'

 

Hmm, maybe thats a better way of asking, as its even more neutral.

I like that! Thanks for the suggestion

[Free]

With what purpose did you post the complete story? You were right that 2♣ is a much better call than 1NT, that much is proven. But that doesn't justify your table manners. And if one or more people point that out to you, all of a sudden you feel the need to go bezerk. Chill out dude.

 

I'll shut up now in the hope to avoid more of your PM's.

 

Name calling removed to save Ben some work.

[dustinst22]

 

 

 

After seeing the hand I wonder what he actually said. Since you conveniently avoided telling us that you missed a terrible slam, you might have conveniently skipped this part as well.

 

 

 

I don't think Arc ever made the claim they belonged in slam. I think his point is, 1NT poorly described his partner's hand and could easily have caused them to miss a good contract (whether it be a game or slam). Certainly as Opener, 1NT wouldn't exactly inspire me to explore slam.

[the hog]

I don't think Arc ever made the claim they belonged in slam. I think his point is, 1NT poorly described his partner's hand and could easily have caused them to miss a good contract (whether it be a game or slam). Certainly as Opener, 1NT wouldn't exactly inspire me to explore slam.

 

Good thing too; even game is not 100% on this hand. To say a slam made is a ridiculous comment.

I would bid 2C, buit really would not quibble too much about 1NT; it is not a "great" hand.

[Siegmund]

PS: I'd bid 2/1GF even with ♦xxx instead of ♦Qxx

 

Put me down for that too. Distribution matters, when you've got a nice fit and guaranteed entries. Now, maybe your partnership agrees to put some game-forcing hands through 1NT and if so thats OK (he DID jump to 4M after a minimum rebid from you), but I do think responder has a game force and then some.