Reach game ? from which side ?

[dellache]

[hv=pc=n&w=sajt8hk852d6ckj82&e=sq43hj6daqjt9543c&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=1c1n]266|200[/hv]

IMP.

What contract do you reach from EW, and how ?

NOTE: if East doubles now, South will XX="Please bid 2♣, I've 5+cards somewhere", North will bid 2♣ if possible, and then NS will pass throughout.

[nigel_k]

Agree with X and would bid 2♦ over 2♣, then 2♥ by West.

 

East has a problem at this point. You could be making 3NT but not 5♦ if partner has a hand like KJx Q10xx xx AQxx but he might have bid 2NT instead of 2♥ with that. It's more likely partner has one diamond at most and, in that case, 5♦ will make more often than 3NT and will also go down less when wrong. So you would like to invite in diamonds.

 

The next question is whether 4♦ is invitational or forcing. In principle it should be forcing, especially as you have no cue bid available. But the 1NT overcall makes slam unlikely and it isn't a choice of games situation so maybe a forcing 4♦ is not needed. If you are sure 4♦ is forcing you could just blast 5♦. I think the hand is too good to just bid 3♦ and hope that partner keeps bidding. He will often pass with a stiff diamond even with decent cards elsewhere.

 

I would probably bid 4♦ in case partner has a bad hand and decides to pass, but not really expecting him to pass. With West I would raise to 5♦.

[kenrexford]

Any contract that we end up declaring I want declared by partner. The likely candidate is 5♦, which probably makes.

 

Systems on (as if partner opened 1NT), sort of, is workable and accomplishes this goal:

 

1♣-(1NT)-X = penalty

1♣-(1NT)-2♣ = Lair = "Stayman"

1♣-(1NT)-2♦/2♥ = transfers

1♣-(1NT)-2♠ = clubs

1♣-(1NT)-2NT = diamonds

 

Three-level, whatever. Work it out yourself.

 

So,

 

1♣-(1NT)-2NT-P-

3♦(no pre-accept because hates diamonds)-P-5♦?

[whereagles]

Since you asked explicitly...

 

1♣ (1NT) 2NT* (pass)

3♥ (pass) 5♦ (end)

 

*2NT: some wierd GF freak, usually a 2 suiter.

[Free]

I'd probably just end up in 3NT:

1♣ - 1NT - Dbl - RDbl

pass - 2♣ - 3♦ - pass

3NT? - pass - pass? - pass

 

Why are you all bidding 5♦ with East when there's so much chance for a misfit? I think it's safe to assume North will have most of the high cards, behind partner's high cards. Opener will probably have lost values in ♣ as well, which makes 5♦ look a lot less attractive imo. :unsure:

[kenrexford]

The question was where you want to end up, not where you would. And then, the question was how to get to where you want if you could. At least that's how I understood it.

[whereagles]

Why are you all bidding 5♦ with East when there's so much chance for a misfit? I think it's safe to assume North will have most of the high cards, behind partner's high cards. Opener will probably have lost values in ♣ as well, which makes 5♦ look a lot less attractive imo. :unsure:

 

Because we bid first and ask questions later :rolleyes:

 

Ok, it's a guess.. and, when in doubt, bid game :)

[dellache]

I'd probably just end up in 3NT:

1♣ - 1NT - Dbl - RDbl

pass - 2♣ - 3♦ - pass

3NT? - pass - pass? - pass

 

Why are you all bidding 5♦ with East when there's so much chance for a misfit? I think it's safe to assume North will have most of the high cards, behind partner's high cards. Opener will probably have lost values in ♣ as well, which makes 5♦ look a lot less attractive imo. :unsure:

Thank you "Free", it's exactly the sequence I suggested to my teammates. North had Kxx AQxx Kxx Axx, and 3SA was making... from the West hand. 5♦ by East is down 2, down 1 by West. My teammates duly bid 3NT... but wrong-sided. A lot Imps were at stakes, coz' oppos managed to stop in 2♦(!!) at our table.

 

At any rate, I think that one of the most important point is to strive to make WEST declare, on general principles.

[Free]

Thank you "Free", it's exactly the sequence I suggested to my teammates. North had Kxx AQxx Kxx Axx, and 3SA was making... from the West hand. 5♦ by East is down 2, down 1 by West. My teammates duly bid 3NT... but wrong-sided. A lot Imps were at stakes, coz' oppos managed to stop in 2♦(!!) at our table.

 

At any rate, I think that one of the most important point is to strive to make WEST declare, on general principles.

My pleasure :)

 

Note however that I used questionmarks for 3NT and pass, which indicate that I don't think these choices are obvious/clear/correct...

[Hanoi5]

Erm, sorry to interrupt but, why do we want to play game?

[Free]

Erm, sorry to interrupt but, why do we want to play game?

We want to play game because W has an opening and E has a GF hand.

[Hanoi5]

We want to play game because W has an opening and E has a GF hand.

 

So the fact that North might hold ♥AQ and ♠K plus a twice guarded ♦K is not enough to keep us from bidding to game?

[Fluffy]

indeed it is enough to make me wanna invite only if I was able.

 

I would bid 3♣ transfer and then 3♠ hoping to hear 3NT, what I'd hear is 4♠ and I'd go 1 down in 5♦.

[Free]

So the fact that North might hold ♥AQ and ♠K plus a twice guarded ♦K is not enough to keep us from bidding to game?

If ♦s run we already have 8 tricks, otherwise there's a good chance for 7 tricks with a ♠ entry.

 

That, plus we are V and it's imps scoring. An educated guess imo is that game will win in the long run (in NT that is). As I said before, I'm not a fan of bidding to 5♦ with this hand, but 3NT is just fine.