12 table movement

[McBruce]

This Double Weave movement might work for my short 20-22 board Wednesday evening game, which is often 10 tables. However, I want to get the movement typed into ACBLScore first. Meanwhile...

 

--last Wednesday, with 10 tables at gametime -- actually, 10 tables + one unpartnered and very bad player (VBP) and a second fill-in (SFI) who had had the VBP experience previously and was not inclined to take a second bite of that apple but was willing to play two rounds with VBP until I could take over -- I had one missing player who was scheduled to arrive a bit late, and one player who walked in (WI) not expecting to play who played the first board for the latecomer. I set up the fastest consecutive N-S pairs as the relay, put out 2 boards per table, and set up the byestand in the correct spot. Then a pair walked in (they'd called earlier, I forgot) with the latecomer. Solution: put latecomer with SFI at 11NS (after privately convincing SFI to stay with the upgrade), set up latecomer's partner with WI permanently, and fall upon my sword and play with VBP myself. (I now completely understand SFI's position, but that's a story--actually several stories--for another day.) Also required: stop the relay from happening (got to this just in time), add the boards from the byestand table, and get ready for questions, because boards 5 and 15 are followed by boards 6 and 16. Fun times for all. (Hey, give me some credit, VBP enjoyed himself. I managed to be polite despite the fact that our opponents had a better combined score than the winners.)

 

--last night (the following Wednesday), I am about to be a playing director at 10NS in an IMP Pairs with another single, against club owner and partner, when it is discovered ten minutes in that one player's partner has not arrived. Club manager is unable to find a 40th player after ten minutes of trying and withdraws to avoid a sitout, but this time it's far too late to save the relay from happening and I'm not even going to try to describe my 'solution' because everyone will have a better one. Suffice it to say that "average" was about +1.5 IMPs thanks to Law 12's 'in no way at fault' clause, and had I listed myself among the 18 pairs alongside a negative score to balance the scales I would only have finished fourth-last!

 

Such, such are the joys of 7pm starts, where sometimes the club is virtually empty at 6:40 and three dozen players arrive in the last ten minutes (two-thirds of them wanting to sit North-South).

 

In both cases, had I set up a double weave, most of the problems would be easily solved. Any time I think I have ten tables, I'll just set up ten normal tables, and if it becomes 11 or 9 there's no need to break up a relay or add boards from a byestand at odd spots. I have no doubt in my ability to describe the movement properly to the players, assuming I can get them to listen. I do think the idea of E-W moving the boards is best, at least for our group: the instructions therefore reducing to:

 

--If your E-W pair number is even, go down one table every round all evening.

--If your E-W pair number is odd, go up one table every round all evening.

--E-W should move the completed boards one table in the opposite direction as they leave.

--During round five I'll let each table know individually where the boards go for round six.

 

The one thing that concerns me is the fact that E-W pairs, instead of moving all in the same direction along a great loop, are moving against one another all night. Isn't this clashing a bit scary, especially in clubs where space is a bit tight?

[gordontd]

This Double Weave movement might work for my short 20-22 board Wednesday evening game, which is often 10 tables.

I think you've missed the important point that a Double-Weave requires a multiple of four tables, so eight & twelve are fine but ten is not.

 

You could do a 7-round Web Mitchell for 10 tables though (3-board rounds mean the board sharing is less of a problem), or an 11-round Hesitation Mitchell (but that requires sharing two-board sets at Tables 1 & 10).

[Vampyr]

The one thing that concerns me is the fact that E-W pairs, instead of moving all in the same direction along a great loop, are moving against one another all night. Isn't this clashing a bit scary, especially in clubs where space is a bit tight?

 

It might help if you had a strict rule that both pairs are responsible for checking the Bridgemate and making sure that they are playing the right pair and the right boards. Movement and/or table cards could be an additional safety measure.

[McBruce]

It might help if you had a strict rule that both pairs are responsible for checking the Bridgemate and making sure that they are playing the right pair and the right boards. Movement and/or table cards could be an additional safety measure.

 

Bridgemates have not arrived on these shores yet, except for one local director who has such a full slate of games that he decided to make the purchase to save the wear and tear on his legs. In the few games I've played with them I find them space-consuming, distracting (I actually asked to sit E-W), and certainly no faster than the tried and true travelers plus last round pickups. But I have to admit that these are the same types of complaints people had about bid-boxes when they first arrived.

[McBruce]

I think you've missed the important point that a Double-Weave requires a multiple of four tables, so eight & twelve are fine but ten is not.

 

I had a vague feeling that this was the case, which is why I wanted to make sure I had set up the movement in ACBLScore first. Oh well. Back to the drawing board...

[Vampyr]

Bridgemates have not arrived on these shores yet, except for one local director who has such a full slate of games that he decided to make the purchase to save the wear and tear on his legs. In the few games I've played with them I find them space-consuming, distracting (I actually asked to sit E-W), and certainly no faster than the tried and true travelers plus last round pickups. But I have to admit that these are the same types of complaints people had about bid-boxes when they first arrived.

 

It is like bidding boxes; once you get used to them you find it difficult to imagine how you managed before. Around here, even once-a-week clubs have managed to purchase Bridgemates and duplicate machines. I guess it depends on whether a club can afford to operate at a surplus.

[blackshoe]

There are only two clubs around here that might be able to afford to buy Bridgemates or a Duplimate machine. The owner of one is a technophobe, the owner of the other is, well, "tight fisted" is an underbid. In fact, the Rochester Area Bridge Association (RABA) did buy a Duplimate machine, but practical broke themselves to do it. RABA makes pre-duplicated boards and printed hand records available to clubs for $4 a set, which is not going to build up their finances any time soon. All the clubs are using the service, but only because the players are now insisting on it. The afore-mentioned two club owners (particularly the technophobe) hate it.

[Vampyr]

There are only two clubs around here that might be able to afford to buy Bridgemates or a Duplimate machine. The owner of one is a technophobe, the owner of the other is, well, "tight fisted" is an underbid. In fact, the Rochester Area Bridge Association (RABA) did buy a Duplimate machine, but practical broke themselves to do it. RABA makes pre-duplicated boards and printed hand records available to clubs for $4 a set, which is not going to build up their finances any time soon. All the clubs are using the service, but only because the players are now insisting on it. The afore-mentioned two club owners (particularly the technophobe) hate it.

 

It sounds as if you have an unusually large proportion of proprietary clubs in your area. Perhaps if they had more competition from membership clubs they would have to invest in order to compete.

 

It also sounds as if the RABA should be charging a lot more for their duplicating service.

[blackshoe]

All the clubs in this area are proprietary. This is, I think, the norm in North America (an impression, not something I can back up with data).

 

RABA is afraid that if they raise the fees, the club owners will scream bloody murder, and refuse to pay.

[NickRW]

Four bucks for a set of duplicated boards is, imo, a big underbid. There is a club near me that provides duplicated boards to another club for nine pounds sterling - which seemed to my club when we were recently considering whether to get our own machine or use the same service to be a big overbid.

 

There is a fourth nearby club who might in the future buy duplicated sets from us now that we've got out own machine - we'd probably be asking 5 or 6 pounds sterling - which seems to me to be about right - given that they buy two sets of boards - bring us a used one and take the other set made up - and not demand that the boards are duplicated on the spot for them.

 

Nick

[blackshoe]

Oh, I agree. Six bucks a set seems much more like a reasonable price. But as I said, there is that fear.

[WellSpyder]

Oh, I agree. Six bucks a set seems much more like a reasonable price. But as I said, there is that fear.

Or indeed eight bucks. (I don't think your "bucks" are exactly equivalent to NickRW's "pounds sterling" :) )

[blackshoe]

No, they aren't. :D

[NickRW]

Eh. I think we're agreed that four of these "$" is low and nine of these "£" is a bit much and somewhere in the middle is about right. ;)

[jeffford76]

The club with a dealing machine around here (Seattle area) charges $15/set to make boards. A couple of the other clubs pay it as it's becoming very hard to get people to play without premade boards and hand records. Some of the other clubs have a person hand deal the boards before the session.

[Vampyr]

The club with a dealing machine around here (Seattle area) charges $15/set to make boards. A couple of the other clubs pay it as it's becoming very hard to get people to play without premade boards and hand records.

 

Blackshoe, this latter might be the case where you live -- if the dealing machine owners decided to charge more, the clubs might be forced to pay it in order to compete.

 

Some of the other clubs have a person hand deal the boards before the session.

 

This does not seem to me to be much of an economy measure. It probably takes only about a minute to deal a hand from a hand record, but two or three to get all the cards in order first. Then there is taking the cards out and putting them back in the boards, taking the boards in and out of the box, maybe checking the hands or at least doing some spot-checks... Even at minimum wage this sounds expensive.

[gordontd]

Our club charges £10 a set, and I don't think that's unreasonable: the machine cost us a couple of thousand pounds, servicing it costs about £200 a year, we pay someone to operate it, we need to replace cards, we duplicate hand records, and we're helping our competitors provide a better service.

 

When I used to deal boards for a club by hand, it took me about 1 hour a set (without duplicating or paying for the hand records to be produced). Any less than £10 a set and it wouldn't really be worth our while.

[pran]

 

Some of the other clubs have a person hand deal the boards before the session.

 

This does not seem to me to be much of an economy measure. It probably takes only about a minute to deal a hand from a hand record, but two or three to get all the cards in order first. Then there is taking the cards out and putting them back in the boards, taking the boards in and out of the box, maybe checking the hands or at least doing some spot-checks... Even at minimum wage this sounds expensive.

15 boards/hour was the very best we could achieve when we hand dealt boards from (computer generated) hand records. This included cards from the board, presorting, dealing and cards back to the board.

 

I don't know how many boards make up a "set"; in Norway $15 (or about £9) at the current exchange rate (plus freight when apliccable) would typically pay the rent of between 40 and 55 pre-dealt boards (for instance 2 copies each of about 25 boards)

[NickRW]

Our club charges £10 a set, and I don't think that's unreasonable:

 

You certainly wouldn't get the committee of my club to bite on that! 3 sessions a week = over 1500 quid for the year. After two years we'd have bought a machine for you! Not to mention the time and cost of transporting the darned things. We MUCH prefered to have our own machine.

 

Nick

[axman]

15 boards/hour was the very best we could achieve when we hand dealt boards from (computer generated) hand records. This included cards from the board, presorting, dealing and cards back to the board.

 

 

 

If you are duping by hand you might want to deal straight from an unsorted deck. When I was duping it took about 100 sec per board.

[gordontd]

You certainly wouldn't get the committee of my club to bite on that! 3 sessions a week = over 1500 quid for the year. After two years we'd have bought a machine for you! Not to mention the time and cost of transporting the darned things. We MUCH prefered to have our own machine.

 

Nick

Well of course! No club that plays three times a week would pay someone else to do it. But it's not as though we're actively soliciting dealing for other clubs - they ask us, and that's the rate that just about makes it worth our while.

[Vampyr]

If you are duping by hand you might want to deal straight from an unsorted deck. When I was duping it took about 100 sec per board.

 

I would have thought that face-up dealing would be a lot slower than face-down. It seems very difficult.

[mjj29]

I would have thought that face-up dealing would be a lot slower than face-down. It seems very difficult.

When I was dealing for the university club here I asked the players to sort the cards at the end of each session - which takes hardly any time for the players as it's ~1 board each, but meant I could deal 24 boards in about half an hour. I also have a mechanism for dealing which does not leak any knowledge of the hands to me, as I was also playing them.