6c in RHO's suit

[kgr]

IMP's

[hv=pc=n&s=sj98762hqj9dqcq96&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1c1s]133|200[/hv]

Your Call?

[Fluffy]

First pass is clear IMO, the econd one is more debatable lacking defensive quick tricks but -160 ain't the end of the world

[kgr]

First pass is clear IMO, the second one is more debatable lacking defensive quick tricks but -160 ain't the end of the world

I'm surprised by this. I would think that you only pass initially if you want to pass again when partner DBL's & if you don't want to Pass again then it is better to start with 1NT to show your pnt range? So I would think that if the 1st pass is clear then the 2nd is also clear?

[aguahombre]

I'm surprised by this. I would think that you only pass initially if you want to pass again when partner DBL's & if you don't want to Pass again then it is better to start with 1NT to show your pnt range? So I would think that if the 1st pass is clear then the 2nd is also clear?

 

Those thoughts went thru my alledged mind, and I might apply them to this one. But 1NT does have some flaws, so passing and then dogging it with 1NT after the reopening double might work also.

[Fluffy]

yes when you consider this hand worth 8 HCP, but the honnors are so bad I consider downgrading it to the 2-6 range where pass then 1NT happens

[Free]

This hand is worth a lot less than 8HCP, all sorts of downgrades, especially since our own suit is useless. I'd pass first, and rebid 1NT if partner Doubles. Since it's imps, I kind of like 2♣ instead of 1NT, the chance is huge that partner has 5 of them, and we have ruffing values and some ♥ stuffing.

[kgr]

[hv=pc=n&s=sj98762hqj9dqcq96&w=s4h8732djt987653c&n=s5h654dak4ca85432&e=sakqt3haktd2ckjt7&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1c1sppdpp2dp2np3dd3np4ddppp]399|300[/hv]

We were lucky that opps saved us from 3♦X to 4♦X and misplayed to go -1

[whereagles]

None of the above:

 

Pass + 2♣ over pard's take out dbl, since pard rates to have 1444 or 1435/1345.

[the hog]

Pass followed by 1NT looks totally obvious. Why pass first? To slow down the auction; also there is no guarantee that partner will make a t/o double.

To show how fatuous it is to make a penalty pass the second time around, look at the actual hand.

[Lurpoa]

IMP's

[hv=pc=n&s=sj98762hqj9dqcq96&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1c1s]133|200[/hv]

Your Call?

 

 

Pass.

P will always double, if my LHO keeps quiet.

And Pass again: It looks like I have 4 (4.5) assured tricks.

At the worst it is 1S=.

[Lurpoa]

Pass followed by 1NT looks totally obvious. Why pass first? To slow down the auction; also there is no guarantee that partner will make a t/o double.

To show how fatuous it is to make a penalty pass the second time around, look at the actual hand.

 

 

No, this cannot be a good action.

What has P do think about that ?

Playing Negative doubles, your pass on the first round "could be" a penalty pass.

You were unable to bid 1NT on first round and now you deny a penalty pass.

Your 1NT bid cannot be a proposal to play there. To me it is a take out for the other 2 colors.

[mtvesuvius]

No, this cannot be a good action.

What has P do think about that ?

Playing Negative doubles, your pass on the first round "could be" a penalty pass.

You were unable to bid 1NT on first round and now you deny a penalty pass.

Your 1NT bid cannot be a proposal to play there. To me it is a take out for the other 2 colors.

You've never held a balanced 7 count with a stopper before?

 

FWIW I agree w/the hog here, although the actual hand is a bit atypical.

[aguahombre]

Playing Negative doubles, your pass on the first round "could be" a penalty pass.

You were unable to bid 1NT on first round and now you deny a penalty pass.

Your 1NT bid cannot be a proposal to play there. To me it is a take out for the other 2 colors.

 

considering that advancer passed the overcall, and that partner is reopening with a double, (try not to be influenced by this exact holding of 6 cards in their suit), you are much more likely to hold a relatively balanced hand below the standard 8-count (good 7), than to hold support for both unbid suits and not made a neg double. If you do have that, you can chose a suit. But if you have the weak balanced 1NT hand type, you have nowhere to go.

 

 

So, on frequency, your idea of an artificial 1NT is less useful than a natural weak 1NT.

[Lurpoa]

You've never held a balanced 7 count with a stopper before?

 

FWIW I agree w/the hog here, although the actual hand is a bit atypical.

 

 

? I do not understand your comments.

So,... why not an immediate 1NT, no need to wait till partner doubles.....

[Lurpoa]

considering that advancer passed the overcall, and that partner is reopening with a double, (try not to be influenced by this exact holding of 6 cards in their suit), you are much more likely to hold a relatively balanced hand below the standard 8-count (good 7), than to hold support for both unbid suits and not made a neg double. If you do have that, you can chose a suit. But if you have the weak balanced 1NT hand type, you have nowhere to go.

 

 

So, on frequency, your idea of an artificial 1NT is less useful than a natural weak 1NT.

 

 

Yes.

If you pass the 1♠ overcall, and seen your length in ♠, it is 99% sure that partner will double, to protect you against a penalty pass....

You can not stand that penalty pass.

So... i think it is better to bid 1NT immediately: at leat P know that you have 6+ H and a stopper.......

No ?

[Lurpoa]

considering that advancer passed the overcall, and that partner is reopening with a double, (try not to be influenced by this exact holding of 6 cards in their suit), you are much more likely to hold a relatively balanced hand below the standard 8-count (good 7), than to hold support for both unbid suits and not made a neg double. If you do have that, you can chose a suit. But if you have the weak balanced 1NT hand type, you have nowhere to go.

 

 

So, on frequency, your idea of an artificial 1NT is less useful than a natural weak 1NT.

 

 

What I mean is:

Or you decide you want to penalize the overcaller and you pass (partner will/must double !).

Or you do not want to risk a 1♠X= and you bid 1NT immediately

A delayed 1NTbid makes no sense, unless it is a T/O for the minors (unlikely !).

[Fluffy]

? I do not understand your comments.

So,... why not an immediate 1NT, no need to wait till partner doubles.....

Cos that shows about 8-10 points you do not have

[Lurpoa]

Cos that shows about 8-10 points you do not have

 

 

Any good reason to play a direct 1NT as 8-10 ?

I use to play it 6-9 (10)... Any reason to change this after the overcall ? Any references on that ?

It certainly is not specified that this should change in the SAYC booklet or in BWS2001.

[mtvesuvius]

Any good reason to play a direct 1NT as 8-10 ?

I use to play it 6-9 (10)... Any reason to change this after the overcall ? Any references on that ?

It certainly is not specified that this should change in the SAYC booklet or in BWS2001.

BWS2001 is not god. Nor is SAYC. Maybe spaghetti monsters, but I digress...

 

Anyway, the overall allows us to not be forced into bidding 1N on 6-7 HCP hands, which rarely play well, and if penalized can often be quite a massacre. Reserving 1N for constructive 8-10 hands allows you to bid better both constructively and defensively.

 

The 6-7 HCP hands aren't really thrilled about bidding the first time, but now they have to find a call. In this case, that is 1N.

[Lurpoa]

BWS2001 is not god. Nor is SAYC. Maybe spaghetti monsters, but I digress...

 

Anyway, the overall allows us to not be forced into bidding 1N on 6-7 HCP hands, which rarely play well, and if penalized can often be quite a massacre. Reserving 1N for constructive 8-10 hands allows you to bid better both constructively and defensively.

 

The 6-7 HCP hands aren't really thrilled about bidding the first time, but now they have to find a call. In this case, that is 1N.

 

 

no, no Gods. :) .

but at the least authorative guidelines !!! We all can learn a lot from our Masters.

 

I did some internet-research on that free bid of 1NT. I found some sources who defend the 8-10 version, but at least as many consider the 1NT response as unchanged.

I understand part of your arguments; but I see also the added stress to find a response on 6-7H hands.

 

Without choosing for one or other option, I would consider, that, if no special agreements have been made with partner, the 1NT bid is 6(6good)-10H.

[the hog]

Lurpoa, with all due respects, if you are not going to take any notice of peoples' answers, the why ask questions. Playing 1NT immediately as a stronger bid is almost universal.