babalu1997 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 you are playing forcing no trump. hard core, x-rated forcing no trump. is there something worng with my bidding? [hv=pc=n&n=s7hjt64dkt973c764&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1sp1np2cp2dppp]133|200[/hv] thanksps i dound partner with 3 little clubs and aq third in diamonds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Partner was probably 5=2=3=3 and bid his lowest 3-card suit. Isn't this normal when playing forcing NT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Well, I would have passed originally, but I don't understand your question. What's the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 You should pass the first time and pass the second time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 You should pass the first time and pass the second time.The first time, sure, but the second time? You really think so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Agree with the 1NT response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpace Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I think you bid just fine. What happened afterwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zasanya Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I think the OP is implying opener should have rebid ♦.As others have pointed out even with AQx in ♦ and xxx in ♣ it is correct to rebid 2♣ to a response of forcing NT.Length matters and with equal length, ♣is the proper rebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Unless opener has some shape a bit more extreme than 5431 then his worst hand type if you pull to diamonds is 5-3-1-4, and you would have been better then by passing 2C. Otherwise it is likely to be pretty neutral or better in Diamonds. I do have some concerns that opener might bid again over 2D with extras. And of course opener could be more shapely than 5431. I can't get too excited about either choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Put me down for pass the first time and pass the second time too, though I will admit that the case between passing 2C and bidding 2D isn't 100% clear. In my book, if you DO for some reason bid a subminimum 1NTF over 1S, it is with the idea of praying partner bids ANYthing but spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I would have passed first time. Agree with Siegmund: you bid 1NT with such a weak hand partly to improve the partscore, but here you aren't really happy with any rebid from partner other than an unlikely 2♥ or 2♦. Not having passed first time I would pass second time. Maybe the chance that 2♦ is better than 2♣ is 50/50 or thereabouts. But you are so weak that you strongly prefer not to give partner a chance to bid again with his 16-17 misfitting hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogs Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 You should pass the first time and pass the second time. Agree with you. The OP is a handhog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 agree 100% with 1NTagree only 10% with 2♦. it's too wishful for my liking. even if it's a 3-3 fit, it could play quite well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 agree 100% with 1NTagree only 10% with 2♦. it's too wishful for my liking. even if it's a 3-3 fit, it could play quite well!You know, sometimes opponents lead trumps on this auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 If you bid 1NT, you should pass imo.If you pass the first time like you should, you won't have this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 The first time, sure, but the second time? You really think so? Yes. Systemically, 2D promises 6 diamonds. There must be an exception for 1-5-5-2 but in that case responder will usually guess to bid hearts unless the diamonds are better. Partner has to trust you and pass when he has 5413 as well as 5314. But 2D also may attract a rebid. You don't want partner making a game try with 2N or 3C or 3D. About the only game try that might improve the contract is 2S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Yes. Systemically, 2D promises 6 diamonds. OK. I don't play forcing NT, so I was probably influenced by knowing partner's shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 You know, sometimes opponents lead trumps on this auction.I'd lead a trump from KJx on this auction... At least against Csaba I would :P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpace Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Yes. Systemically, 2D promises 6 diamonds. Which system is that? Can you please provide some links? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpace Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 btw, possibly stupid question: does the scoring matter to people who respond 1NT? (OP didn't specify, but I presume it is Matchpoints). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu1997 Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 agree 100% with 1NTagree only 10% with 2♦. it's too wishful for my liking. even if it's a 3-3 fit, it could play quite well! After all was said and done, I should not have rebid 2d tho the requirement is only 5 cards in the suit, that actually shows 5+ hcp which i did not have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu1997 Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Which system is that? Can you please provide some links? I do not hobnob with live experts, but I consult dead ones, and Max Hardy says: to introduce a new suit at the 2 level requires 5+ cards and 5-9 hcp. (page 78, std bridge bidding for the 21st century) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babalu1997 Posted March 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Agree with the 1NT response. Well my intent when post was this, I am, in fact a kaplanite, and prefer to play a forcing no trump reponse to show in fact 0+ hcp when holding a misfit for partner. When your hand is in fact that weak, no contract is likely to make anyway so you better try to improve the fit, he says. This is in fact outlined in the 1962 edition of Winning Bridge. Although I have noticed that more recent books have this 5+ hcp thing. I play mostly matchpoints, so the 2 trumps are great for my pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 No strong opinion about 1NT vs pass. I would pass 2♣ for the same reason as Helene: it may or may not be the best partscore but at least there will be no more bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I do not hobnob with live experts, but I consult dead ones, and Max Hardy says: to introduce a new suit at the 2 level requires 5+ cards and 5-9 hcp. (page 78, std bridge bidding for the 21st century) Here's a link I found....http://home.comcast.net/~kwbridge/1ntforce.htm This link suggests that introduction of a new suit at the 2-level requires a strong 5-cd suit. Probably KT97x doesn't qualify as a strong 5-cd suit. This link doesn't get into a lot of nuance about what the probabilities are, but suggesting one's own suit after partner has suggested two other strains ought generally to be avoided. Partner will play you for a 6-cd suit because the odds that you 1) don't have a fit for either of partner's suits and 2) have a good 5-cd suit of your own (meaning that your meager values are concentrated within 5 of your 13 cards) are small. Forcing NT presents difficult rebid problems. What if you have 1-5-5-2 and both your red suits are poor? It's mostly a guess here because any strain could be right. Better is to use semi-forcing NT, but even then one will have to guess sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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