Bergen on Thrump Doubles

[straube]

Learned something of Bergen's take on Thrump Doubles. Apparently Rodwell was the originator of them and uses them for some sequences and perhaps not others.

 

Thrump Doubles are an alternative to Negative Doubles and apply after an opening and a preempt of 3D, 3H, or 3S. Opener is asked to bid 3N with a stopper. Without a stopper, opener bids suits up the line.

 

They're especially useful after a Precision 2m opening showing the minor or after 1H (3S) or 1S (3H). Bergen recommends them also for 1D (3H) and 1D (3S) sequences, too.

 

He plays...

 

1H (3S)

.....dbl-Thrump

.....4C-slamming in hearts

.....4D-creates a force for hearts

.....4H-competitive

 

So there's no way to show a minor except after a Thrump Double.

 

This is in direct conflict with the Robson approach (if memory serves) where 4m is fit-showing for hearts.

 

I wonder what Bergen does after 1S (3H)

 

I'm thinking....

.....dbl-Thrump

.....3S-competitive

.....4C-fit-showing

.....4D-fit-showing

.....4H-slamming

 

Bergen plays...

 

1D (3S)

.....dbl-Thrump

.....4C-clubs and hearts (5/5)

.....4D-diamonds and hearts (5/5)

.....4H-presumably 6H

 

And I have to guess what he does over 1D (3H)

.....dbl-Thrump

.....3S-spades

.....4C-?

.....4D-?

.....4H-?

 

No Thrump Doubles after an opening of 1N

 

1N (3S)

.....dbl-negative

.....3N-hope we have a stopper

 

I bet....

.....4C-clubs and hearts

.....4D-diamonds and hearts

.....4H-just hearts

 

Again, not sure after 1N (3H)

 

Bergen is very down on the idea of playing 5m, even as a sacrifice...not that it isn't right sometimes.

[straube]

Got my questions answered. After 1D artificial...

 

 

1N (3H)

.....dbl-negative

.....3S-natural, forcing

.....3N-natural, doesn't promise a stopper

.....4m-natural, slam try

.....4H-Texas

.....4S-natural, slam try with heart control

 

1N (3S)

.....dbl-negative

.....3N-natural, doesn't promise a stopper

.....4C-usually 5/6 (or good 5/5) hearts and clubs

.....4D-usually 5/6 (or good 5/5) hearts and diamonds

.....4H-hearts

 

1D (3H)

.....thrump

.....3S-natural, forcing

.....3N-natural

.....4m-natural and a lot of shape

 

adding my own...

.....4H-spade transfer

.....4S-spade slam try with heart control

[gwnn]

This is in direct conflict with the Robson approach (if memory serves) where 4m is fit-showing for hearts.

That's not the Robson approach.

 

The Robson approach is to have fit non jumps where opponents bid and raised a suit, not when they bid a suit.

[straube]

That's not the Robson approach.

 

The Robson approach is to have fit non jumps where opponents bid and raised a suit, not when they bid a suit.

 

Yeah, I looked it up last night and I had that wrong.

[whereagles]

Bergen's approach seems to be "minors are for wimps". lol

 

(Which I obviously disagree with... :rolleyes: )