Fluffy Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 My partner loves to ruff in front of declarer with a middle card and declarers get angry often underruffing and then want to change their card. There are many limit cases on this matter, so it is very important to know: when is a card considered played? I consider there are 4 tempos: Draw the card, show the card to everyone, touch the table, and release it. However there are some decalrers who never release it, yet some others dont also touch the table with it. NOTE: I am talking about F2F bridge, not online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 LAW 45CARD PLAYEDA. Play of Card from a HandEach player except dummy plays a card by detaching it from his hand and facing it on the table immediately before him. C. Compulsory Play of Card2. Declarer must play a card from his hand if it is(a) held face up, touching or nearly touching the table; or(b) maintained in such a position as to indicate that it has been played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Law 45A: Each player except dummy plays a card by detaching it from his hand and facing it on the table immediately before him.Law 45C1: A defender’s card held so that it is possible for his partner to see its face must be played to the current trick.Law 45C2: Declarer must play a card from his hand if it is {a} held face up, touching or nearly touching the table; or {b} maintained in such a position as to indicate that it has been played.When a player "must" play a card, it is illegal to change it to some other card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 For the declarers who never put their card on the table, it's necessary to judge whether he "indicated that it has been played." If he displays the card in essentially the same way as he does other cards, I'd consider that such an indication. He doesn't get to suddenly decide that he can retract a card based on not meeting 45C2a when he almost never meets that criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 My partner loves to ruff in front of declarer with a middle card and declarers get angry often underruffing and then want to change their card.I don't really understand what this means. Why would declarers under-ruff unintentionally? I'm clearly alone in my failure to understand, but it really doesn't make sense to me. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 because he doesnt expect RHO to trump (either because he doesnt expect RHO to be void or because it is not a good play in general to ruff in front of declarer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iviehoff Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I don't really understand what this means. Why would declarers under-ruff unintentionally? I'm clearly alone in my failure to understand, but it really doesn't make sense to me. :(What he is saying is the following. Declarer's LHO plays in advance of declarer, and declarer fails to notice. Declarer gets some way through the motions of playing a card, and then realises LHO played in advance. Declarer notices that his choice of card is stupid in the context of LHO's already played card, so wishes to change it. The question is how far through the motions of playing the card becomes irretrievable for declarer. I think a repeated practice of playing early could be a contravention of 74A2 (causing annoyance or embarrassment), so I would try to get him to stop it, even though in theory it can't possibly be to his advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy69A Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 My partner loves to ruff in front of declarer with a middle card and declarers get angry often underruffing and then want to change their card. Your partner should get a life and stop trying to annoy his opponents by playing his cards out of order. I had partner who when he got bored would play cards out of order and very quickly. This succeeeded in confusing or annoying defenders and when he evnetually had to concede a trick becuase of this I thought it well deserved even though I was also on the receivng end of the conceded trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpyder Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Your partner should get a life and stop trying to annoy his opponents by playing his cards out of order. I had partner who when he got bored would play cards out of order and very quickly. This succeeeded in confusing or annoying defenders and when he evnetually had to concede a trick becuase of this I thought it well deserved even though I was also on the receivng end of the conceded trick.Hmmm, I didn't understand OP to be discussing playing cards out of order at all. I saw it as more like the case of playing the K in front of a declarer with AQ who is about to take the finesse. You are playing in turn, but you just might catch a declarer on the hop who has mentally got ahead of themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy69A Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I saw it as more like the case of playing the K in front of a declarer with AQ If that is the case then no problem and declarer's fault for not looking but it's been a long time since I saw a declarer caught by this although partner did cash an ace agaisnt a slam and contiue. Both declarer and I were ruffing (in my case unexpectedly). Declarer, a renowned quick player, ruffed with the 4 out of turn just before I ruffed with the 5. He sulked mightily when I wouldn't let him take it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 to clarify: dummy plays a card, RHO ruffs it with a middle card, declarer draws a low trump and while playing it he will realice that it won't win the trick, and try to go back, sometimes he will touch table sometimes he will not, but from what I am reading it doesn't really matter if it touches the table or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 And you play against declarers who do this a lot? And they think it's someone's fault other than their own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejak Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Tell the declarers to get a life. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Tell the declarers to ^!#$^!$#$!@@!~. :)FYP B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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