Free Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 NV vs V, the auction goes:1♣ - 1♠ - pass - pass2♣ - 2♠ - 2NT - pass... How would you interpret the 2NT call (distribution and strength)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 It's very abnormal but it could be: 6-7 HCP with 3 clubs and spade stopper. 'I didn't bid 1NT earlier 'cause I didn't have the HCP's but if your clubs are so good and you have the other stoppers we could have a go at 3NT, if not just bid 3♣' It could also be: 10-12 with good spades and either 'Now that you rebid clubs I don't want to penalty-double them' or 'Since you rebid your clubs I don't think I'll get to penalty-double them, so NT is our best strain in my opinion'. Crazy ain't it? But that 2NT is. I guess it's meaning it's just a matter of partnership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 I completely disagree with Hanoi5, I think it is a weak minor oriented takeout not wanting to double because not enough strength to defend 2♠X. Something like a 2=3=6=2 or 1=4=6=2 or 1=3=6=3 or 1=4=5=3 that wasn't strong enough to double 1♠, wants to compete to the 3 level with the reds and especially diamonds in the picture, but knows that 3♣ is a safe landing spot. Say x Txxx QJxxxx Qx. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 I would think it's a good ♣ raise with values for a direct 1NT bid but without a full stopper. Perhaps: [hv=pc=n&n=sJ75h62daj987ck96]133|100[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Deleted - I missaw the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 6 diamonds and 2 clubs, any strength. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 6 diamonds and 2 clubs, any strength. Agree, but 3 clubs is possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 4 card disparity in the minors - 6-2 or 7-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 minors for me also, 6-3 is possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 For those who say minors any strength (or something similar), can this be done on 0HCP with a 6-2/6-3/7-3? Or do you need a useful tophonour somewhere? Or 2 tophonours? And what is in your opinion the main purpose of the call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 It's a purely competitive call, I think it should have at least one useful card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I don't think 6-3 is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 For those who say minors any strength (or something similar), can this be done on 0HCP with a 6-2/6-3/7-3? Or do you need a useful tophonour somewhere? Or 2 tophonours? And what is in your opinion the main purpose of the call?opener should bid 3♣ or 3♦ 100% of the time. he does not need to know how strong responder is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 If you have no way to show a weak hand with hearts, then I would read it differently... A double first time would be takeout, so double now would be penalty. I think 2NT is a general purpose forcing bid to get partner to bid again. Maybe something like a 2551 shape, maybe 2 clubs, but certainly both red suits. Conversely, if you play immediate bids as non-forcing, then I'll go along with the xx62 shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 The 2551 or whatever just doubles 1♠, wtp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 4 card disparity in the minors - 6-2 or 7-3 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Don't forget 8-4! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Don't forget 8-4!And the 9-5 that forgot to raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 9-5 is impossible, the opps woulda bid more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 The 2551 or whatever just doubles 1♠, wtp? Most people have an agreement that an initial double is strong enough to take a typical non-fitting rebid, for example a takeout double of a 2 bid opposite a non-fitting minimum opener has a reasonable play in 2NT. In this instance, an immediate double will be assumed strong enough to play in 1NT and a good opener can reply 3NT for example. If this x55x is only a 4 count I (and I am sure many others) would not double. However, if opponents are going to be making 2S then I now have a chance to show my red suits so partner can pick one. This is "tp". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I had 95-93-K98762-T84 and bid 2NT. My reasoning was that it definitely showed both minors and was just competitive + early showing a possible sacrifice without committing to it when opps would actually bid 4♠. My partner bid 3♥ with A642-AK52-void-A7653, I corrected to 4♣ and he raised to 5♣. Needless to say it was a very poor result. I was blamed for the poor score because passing or bidding 3♣ wouldn't result in such a disaster. We don't have a 100% clear agreement about the 2NT call, but I thought my partner should've been able to deduct a useful meaning to the call. I haven't had the chance to talk to him about it and ask him what he thought it meant, so I still don't understand why he bid this way. I suspect his reasoning is something like: "We don't have an agreement so I must consider this natural, however unlikely it is". We have good system notes with a lot of agreements about 2NT in all sorts of situations (lebensohl, scrambling, INV+ with support,...), but this sequence has never come up. Here's a principle question: Suppose you agree with bidding 2NT with this hand (if that's too hard, suppose I have a 2=1=7=3), should I still refrain from bidding 2NT because we lack a clear agreement or should I just bid it because it's the right call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Needless to say it was a very poor result. I was blamed for the poor score because passing or bidding 3♣ wouldn't result in such a disaster. We don't have a 100% clear agreement about the 2NT call, but I thought my partner should've been able to deduct a useful meaning to the call. I haven't had the chance to talk to him about it and ask him what he thought it meant, so I still don't understand why he bid this way. I suspect his reasoning is something like: "We don't have an agreement so I must consider this natural, however unlikely it is". Or it could simply be that he interprets it as I do, namely that the 2NT bid showed both the other suits, ergo the 3♥ bid. When you bid 4♣ he can see a chance of game. You can't have many spades to make the bid (just one or two) and the cross ruffs look great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Facing a partner who thinks outside the box a bit, I'd certainly bid it. Facing a student or inexperienced player, I'd bid 3♣. I think partner should be able to work out what this is though, after all, if you had a penalty of spades you would double 2♠, and what other hand types are there? Fromage, I still don't think that 5-5 in the reds can bid this way, and even if they could, partner should assume minors, and if you happen to have reds, you can always correct 3♣ to 3♦... Not any different than any other 2 places to play 2N. Therefore I think partner has to bid 3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 It seems to me that there's no real reason to compete on total garbage without a club fit here. It's just asking for trouble. What types of non-awful hands pass over 1♠: (1) Trap passes. These can double now. This double should be penalty, since a decent hand with red suits would double 1♠. (2) Balanced hands without a clear bid. These hands usually include 3♣, so you can just raise here. If you have doubleton club and no spade control bidding 2NT now seems silly anyway. (3) Hands with primary diamonds, assuming you play forcing free bids. These hands can actually be fairly good (say up to 8 or 9 hcp) since 2♦ would show better values, double would show hearts, and 3♦ (if weak and not fit or splinter) might show a better/longer suit. Seems clear to me that 2NT should therefore show diamonds, constructive values, and some degree of club fit (often doubleton). Hands with really long diamonds can just bid 3♦ here (or maybe 3♦ right off, if that's natural and weak). I think 5-6♦ + 2♣ would be the normal hand. On Free's hand I would've bid 3♣; usually with three-card support bidding 3♣ seems better than putting partner to a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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