Reverse bids at the level of 2 (SURVEY)

[leonidas]

Hi all, i'm doing a survey upon the following question: Is a reverse bid at the level of 2, either by the opener or by the responder, game forcing or one round only?

I'll appreciate any answers on the subject in order to make statistics.

But please complete your answer adding theese two informations: 1) your country 2) your BBO level.

I'm doing the same question person by person in BBO too.

I'll inform everybody about the statistic results at the end of this survey both in this forum and personally in BBO.

(This general question was originated by a real case: 1C-1H-2C-2S)

Ty vm

[Fluffy]

Reverse by opener is GF only if partner bid 2/1. Otherwise F1R at least.

Reverse by responder is GF always.

 

Spain in here, I´ve got one of those stars at BBO.

[inquiry]

Two level response by:

Opener - forcing, but not GAME force

Responder - Game force

 

1) USA

2) Low Expert or high advanced, but somedays intermediate

[EricK]

By responder: GF

 

By opener: In principle 1RF, but if responder had bid on a sub-minimum hand to try to improve the contract then he can pass here.

 

I am from the UK

My BBO rating is advanced (I would say my bidding is low expert, my defense is high advanced, and my declarer play is low advanced)

 

Eric

[skorchev]

Hi leonidas,

 

I'll repeat the same what I told you on BBO:

 

Every reverse bid by the responder is GF.

 

When the opener doing reverse bid there are only 2 possibilities to stop under game:

 

1st) PASS by responder.

2nd) Bid in the first suit of opening hand by responder. For example:

1♣-1♥

2♠-3♣ - sign-off

 

I'm from Bulgaria. My skill level now is Advanced, but after 10 years - World Class! :)

 

 

Stefan

[gabika73]

By opener:

I like to stick with Ingberman's way here: if responder's second bid is 2nt or lower, he can pass opener's 3-of-1st-suit. (2nt promises stopper iff the 4th suit cannot be bid at the 2-level; the Dallas Aces played it this way)

 

By responder:

It is not that hard-coded. Partnership has to agree.

I am now playing it as one-round force, invitational only, with my regular partner. I expect to be in a minority with this agreement.

 

An advancing from Hungary.

[gabika73]

Just to add a few lines on Stefans's notes on how to stop below game:

 

1/ in my view, responder cannot pass a reverse. a reverse is 100% forcing.

 

2/ 3-of-openers any suit sets trump, and is forward-going. This opens up safe bidding when exploring possible slams.

 

To play 3 of openers suit, according to Ingberman, you have to slow the auction by:

 

a / bidding 2 of your own suit, promising 5+

b / bidding the 4th suit if that is at level 2: denying stopper, and denying 5 in your suit.

c / bidding 2nt: promising stopper only if you did not have option b/

 

Opener must respond to all these bids keeping in mind that his 3-of-first-suit or lower response can be passed.

 

All the other sequences are game-forcing.

 

I have been playing this for several years with no problems.

But, I guess, this is another difference between regions, countries, schools...

[skorchev]

Hi Gabika,

 

let me respond to your post:

 

1/ in my view, responder cannot pass a reverse. a reverse is 100% forcing.

 

The reverse CAN be passed if first bid of the responder is underlimit that he should has or at the minimum of the limit and with a specific hand. Of course it happens very rarely.

 

2/ 3-of-openers any suit sets trump, and is forward-going. This opens up safe bidding when exploring possible slams.

 

To play 3 of openers suit, according to Ingberman

 

This toy is played by your mentor Ingberman (I never heard him/her) and it's a private case. Usually it's sign-off.

 

a / bidding 2 of your own suit, promising 5+

 

I missed this point in my first post, it's another way to stop under game. The repeating of your suit isn't forcing, but it's not sign-off.

 

But, I guess, this is another difference between regions, countries, schools...

 

Here you are absolutely right. :)

 

 

Stefan

[jtfanclub]

Opener cannot GF in SA. Responder is expected to respond 'on air' with no fit, and any hand that could bid game across virtually nothing with no fit is expected to open 2C.

 

I suppose there are cases where responder could reverse and then change his mind, but opener cannot stop below game. In the way I play with my regular partners, there is no such thing as a responder reverse- it's an inquiry about the suit bid (such as help suit game try, which is how we'd interpret that bidding). Responder is in full control of the auction, so he isn't forced to do anything.

 

USA Intermediate

[Free]

Since I play reverse from opener from 15 HCP, you can hardly say it's GF. Only after 2/1 bid it's GF, since partner has 10+HCP.

 

Reverse from responser is always GF.

[luke warm]

i agree with almost everyone... reverse by responder is 100% game force, by opener it's 100% one round force....

 

usa

advanced overall, but my bidding is dependent on the system.. sometimes not as good as i'd like

[paulhar]

Two level response by:

Opener - forcing, but not GAME force

Responder - Game force

 

1) USA

2) Low Expert or high advanced, but somedays intermediate

Same vote - high advanced, USA

[han]

I agree with most people:

 

Reverse by opener promises a rebid, but responder may pass (but only rarely). I also prefer 2NT as weakest bid.

 

Reverse by reponder at 2-level is gameforcing (over 1X-1Y-1Z) and shows a very distributional hand (otherwise go through checkback). In most other sequences it is an artificial game force (e.g. 4th suit, Bourke relay).

 

I'm Dutch but play bridge in the US.

 

I don't understand the levels at BBO, and I rarely agree with other peoples levels. Good players tend to be too polite, while weak players tend to be.. less polite. For practical reasons I say I'm an expert, so that more good players will play with me. I guess my above reasoning tells me I'm mediocre ;) .

[mr1303]

I play forcing for 1 round, and I use Lebensohl after a reverse if responder has such an appaling hand that he wishes to sign off at the 3 level. However, I also tell my partners to make sure they have their bid if they reverse, especially with the sequence 1H 1NT 2S

 

As responder it is GF, although can stop in 4m if no stopper in a suit for 3NT.

 

I'm from the UK, and I reckon I can play a bit on a good day. Won't say anything more than that though

[skorchev]

For practical reasons I say I'm an expert, so that more good players will play with me. I guess my above reasoning tells me I'm mediocre  .

 

Hi Hannie,

 

I don't think that if you post your BBO level is Expert more "good" players will play with you. I know many Advanced players who are better players than Experts, World Classes and than some stars. And if you "raise" your skill level to Expert but really you are Intermediate (sorry, I don't know what is your level, and I don't want to insult you, it's principally to these who "raise" his level) the "good" players will play only once or twice with you and then will put you in their enemy-lists.

 

 

Stefan

[Free]

For practical reasons I say I'm an expert, so that more good players will play with me. I guess my above reasoning tells me I'm mediocre  .

 

Hi Hannie,

 

I don't think that if you post your BBO level is Expert more "good" players will play with you. I know many Advanced players who are better players than Experts, World Classes and than some stars. And if you "raise" your skill level to Expert but really you are Intermediate (sorry, I don't know what is your level, and I don't want to insult you, it's principally to these who "raise" his level) the "good" players will play only once or twice with you and then will put you in their enemy-lists.

 

 

Stefan

Exactly. Or with a note at the bottom "fake expert". This is how I do it actually...

 

Many people ruined the value of the "expert"-status this way so at the moment I like advanced players more than so-called experts or worldclass.

[jtfanclub]

Many people ruined the value of the "expert"-status this way so at the moment I like advanced players more than so-called experts or worldclass.

To me, the definition of Expert on BBO is "Thinks they have the right to abuse intermediates". This is especially sad when they're subbing in a tourney.

[inquiry]

Opener cannot GF in SA. Responder is expected to respond 'on air' with no fit, and any hand that could bid game across virtually nothing with no fit is expected to open 2C.

1♣-1♥

4♥

[jtfanclub]

Opener cannot GF in SA.  Responder is expected to respond 'on air' with no fit, and any hand that could bid game across virtually nothing with no fit is expected to open 2C.

1♣-1♥

4♥

Allow me to repeat myself.

 

any hand that could bid game across virtually nothing WITH NO FIT is expected to open 2C.

 

This has a fit, and the bid you mention isn't forcing at all- in fact, it's a sign off.

 

What's your point?

[leonidas]

Thank you very mutch to all of you!! Very interesting opinions.

I like to inform you that i'm doing the same question, directly person by person, to many Stars, WC, Experts and so on in BBO when i'm connected.

At this point in time, after one day from the beginning, i have collected 25 answers in this forum plus in BBO.

It is too early to make statistics ofcourse.

I think i'll go on for many days.

At the end i hope to be able to summarize and i'll divulge the risults, in total and divided by cathegories: per countries, per Stars, ecc.

At this point in time 13 answers are = opener ORF; responder GF

10 answers are = both ORF

2 answers are = both GF

 

See you :D

[vang]

any hand that could bid game across virtually nothing WITH NO FIT is expected to open 2C.

 

um, dunno. i played something like "any hand which can make game with 2 queens at partner (or less), open with 2C." which implies that 1/1 response usually needs more than 2 queens, which means the 1/1 responder promises something (not much, but _something_)

[helene_t]

I wonder why

1♦-1♥

2♦-2♠

should be GF, what else can responder do with a invitational hand, 5-card hearts and a spades stopper.

 

Netherlands, but prefer not to play Dutch systems. Consider myself World Class (that is, I always agree with myself) but most people consider me intermediate.

[luke warm]

I wonder why

1♦-1♥

2♦-2♠

should be GF, what else can responder do with a invitational hand, 5-card hearts and a spades stopper.

 

Netherlands, but prefer not to play Dutch systems. Consider myself World Class (that is, I always agree with myself) but most people consider me intermediate.

on the sequence you showed, opener presumeably denied holding 4 spades and also showed a minimum opening with diamonds... he couldn't bid 1S, 1NT, or 2C, therefore probably holds 6 diamonds... it seems to me that unless you have a fitting ♦ honor, nt doesn't have much chance

 

i guess it's possible to miss game with an invitational hand opposite a minimum minor opener, but the misfit nature of the hand doesn't sound good...

 

i like your self-description... wish i'd thought of it first

[Fluffy]

I wonder why

1♦-1♥

2♦-2♠

should be GF, what else can responder do with a invitational hand, 5-card hearts and a spades stopper.

Interesting point, but this looks as marginal sequence, maybe its better to play just 1RF in this position, althou I think 3♦ would make the trick good for an invitational, is it worth it to remember this sequence is the only non GF?

 

Netherlands, but prefer not to play Dutch systems. Consider myself World Class (that is, I always agree with myself) but most people consider me intermediate.

 

Intermediate? I never played with you, but what I can say is at least everything I have read from you in hte forums has sense, that´s more than I can say from most (included me) :D.

[paulhar]

Opener cannot GF in SA.  Responder is expected to respond 'on air' with no fit, and any hand that could bid game across virtually nothing with no fit is expected to open 2C.

1♣-1♥

4♥

Allow me to repeat myself.

 

any hand that could bid game across virtually nothing WITH NO FIT is expected to open 2C.

 

This has a fit, and the bid you mention isn't forcing at all- in fact, it's a sign off.

 

What's your point?

Sigonff?

 

Wouldn't you respond 1H on

 

S-KJ52

H-AQJ63

D-K74

C-7 ?

 

And when partner bids 4H showing about 20, you'd "respect" his "signoff" and pass?