Was it somehting I said? or bid?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

And here I thot I was being quite clever....

 

but your solution, Zel, is "pure genius" ( for the transfer to Hearts ) !

 

Now, how do you handle the transfer to SPADES ?

 

1NT - 2H!

2S - ??

[TWO4BRIDGE]

The issue is whether 4♥ was a choice of games bid or a cue bid with clubs as trump.

 

To me, 4♥ is a cue bid.

 

Responding to the issue.

Here is a very similar newspaper hand from 2/15/2011 ( gorenbridge@aol.com ).

It shows 4♥ as a Ctrl cue after ♣ were agreed !

[hv=pc=n&s=sq8hat9842d2ckqt9&n=sak64hq6dat4ca762&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1np2dp2hp3cp4cp4dp4h(Ctrl%20cue)p4n(RKC)p5s(3%20Aces)p6cppp]266|200|4D = Ctrl Cue[/hv]

( South was Geir Helgemo ).

[kenberg]

Responding to the issue.

Here is a very similar newspaper hand from 2/15/2011 ( gorenbridge@aol.com ).

It shows 4♥ as a Ctrl cue after ♣ were agreed !

[hv=pc=n&s=sq8hat9842d2ckqt9&n=sak64hq6dat4ca762&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1np2dp2hp3cp4cp4dp4h(Ctrl%20cue)p4n(RKC)p5s(3%20Aces)p6cppp]266|200|4D = Ctrl Cue[/hv]

( South was Geir Helgemo ).

 

 

Exactly what cue showed what is not so clear to me, after all it is N bidding 4♥. Nonetheless, despite the 6-2 heart fit the raise of clubs seems to have set clubs as trump and the slam was played in clubs. The article can be found (in no great format) at http://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/article_db922ad1-cd69-5e9c-ac3b-a5b7c333efe8.html, mainly discussing the play.

 

But yes, raising clubs set clubs. Maybe I should call Geir up for a game? Another time maybe. After my date with Natalie Portman perhaps.

[Zelandakh]

Now, how do you handle the transfer to SPADES ?

 

1NT - 2H!

2S - ??

With apologies to Ken since I do not wish to threadjack...

 

Spades is more difficult since you need 2NT as a natural bid and there is thus less space. So I play a simple inversion of 3C = diamonds or 1-suited slam try and 3D = clubs. Over either 3H becomes the no fit flag, with 3S showing a spade fit. Over 3C, 3D shows diamond fit (cancelled by 3S from Responder showing the 1-suited type); over 3D, 3NT and higher bids show a club fit.

[kenberg]

No apology needed, I think my topic has run its natural course (and maybe then some).

 

I did not entirely understand your post. Holding five hearts, four spades, and invitational values when partner opens 1NT, I transfer to hearts and bid 2♠. Are you giving up this useful meaning? I realize that for some, 1NT-2♣-2♦-2♥ shows 5-4 invit, but I think most, including myself, play this Stayman auction as 5-4 weak. Or even 4-4 weak although I am not fond of that.

[straube]

I like 4H there as a slam try with 6H/4C but nf. If responder had a 6/4 hand that wanted to slam, he would simply agree clubs and give up on hearts. Usually clubs would play better anyway. For those who don't use kickback, 4S would be a cue and 4N ought to be RKC for two suits because both the heart and club king are key cards, whichever slam is bid.

[Zelandakh]

I did not entirely understand your post. Holding five hearts, four spades, and invitational values when partner opens 1NT, I transfer to hearts and bid 2♠. Are you giving up this useful meaning? I realize that for some, 1NT-2♣-2♦-2♥ shows 5-4 invit, but I think most, including myself, play this Stayman auction as 5-4 weak. Or even 4-4 weak although I am not fond of that.

I use 1NT - 2♦ - 2♥ - 2NT as an invite with 5 hearts and 4 spades. This has the disadvantage of not being able to play in 2S but the advantage that Responder gets another try when Opener has a fit, meaning that with hands that you might feel the need to force with in standard (in case partner passes with 4 spades) you can go low on the misfit and still raise to game later. Similarly (in a puppet structure) 1NT - 2NT is invitational with 5 spades and 4 hearts; 1NT - 2C - 2D - 2NT is invitational with 4-4 in majors; and 1NT - 2H - 2S - 3H is invitational with 5-5 or more.

[y66]

I think 3C shows a 2 suited hand with interest in playing in hearts or clubs and possible slam interest.

 

I like the 4C idea but maybe it's premature to bypass 3N.

 

I think 4H shows 6 hearts, 4 clubs and slam interest. With 6 hearts, 4 clubs and no slam interest, transfer to 4H immediately over 1N. With 5 hearts, 4 clubs and no slam interest, bid 5C over 4C. With 3514 or 1534 and slam interest, bid your 3 card suit now to show your shape.

 

I think 6C over 4N is a pragamatic bid. Responder has no business going to 6H or behaving that way.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Don, with hearts as the major I think there is a simpler solution to this. After 1NT - 2D - 2H,

 

2♠ = 2/4NT invite; or clubs; or strong (1-suited) slam try in hearts (Opener responds 2N = min, 3C = max)

3♣ = diamonds

 

After 1NT - 2D - 2H - 3C or 1NT - 2D - 2H - 2S - 2NT - 3C, then 3D is a flag showing no fit, 3H obviously shows a heart fit and other bids show a fit in the minor, diamonds for sequence 1 and clubs for sequence 2. You get extra space where you need it as well as solving the issue of 1-suited slam hands.

 

As for the OP, one of the first things I learned in transfers was never to show the minor in these sequence unless willing to goto (at least) 5 of the minor. 4C unambiguously sets clubs so 4H should really be a cue rather than an attempt to play. In other words North has shown a good hand for slam in clubs. In the context of this auction 6H is unfathomable. I like Nigel's choice of 3♠ alot but I am not sure I would choose it over 4♣ with a random pick-up partner and no agreements.

Zel...

 

I have a question about one particular sequence:

1NT - 2D!

2H - 2S! ( a ) = 2NT/4NT invite; ( b ) = Cl is 2nd suit; ( c ) = long Hts, slammish

3C! ( max ) - ??

3D! = Clubs is 2nd suit = ( b ) hand

3H = long Hts = ( c ) hand

3S = ?? undefined

3NT = to play = have the 2NT invite ( a ) hand

6NT = to play = have the 4NT quant ( a ) hand+

 

What do you use 3S for ?

[han]

For me 4H is a sudden desire to play in 4H.

[gnasher]

For me 4♥ is a sudden suggestion to play in 4♥. How else are we supposed to bid Jxx QJ10xx x AQxx opposite Axx Kx Axxx KJxx?

 

With the South hand, I'd bid 3♠ after 3♣. I don't think that promises four clubs, but it shows strong spades, weakish diamonds, and some interest in a suit contract. If responder bids 3NT over that, I pass, if he bids 4♥ I convert it to 5♣, and if he makes a slam try I cooperate.

[Zelandakh]

What do you use 3S for ?

I use this seuqence to allow for split-range splinters. Essentially this (and also 4m) is a strong single-suited slam try with shortage in suit bid.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I use this seuqence to allow for split-range splinters. Essentially this (and also 4m) is a strong single-suited slam try with shortage in suit bid.

Thus, after the min/max by Opener,

Responder's rebid with the long Ht hand:

3H = no shortage

3S!/4C!/4D! = long Ht hand with respective shortage

[Zelandakh]

Well, no (small) shortage or a hand that wants to hear a cue auction and the critical suit is below the shortage.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Well, no (small) shortage or a hand that wants to hear a cue auction and the critical suit is below the shortage.

I think I "got it" now ... thx. :-)

[masse24]

My guess, based on the bidding and your partner's quick exit is as follows:

 

He was in love with his ♥'s

 

3♣ was a Cue-bid thinking the suit had been agreed. (Yes....that is crazy).

 

4♥ was where he wanted to play it because you did not cooperate with his cue bid sequence.

 

6♥ was, again, your partner saying "Hearts is trump partner".

 

Wrong? Absolutely. :angry:

 

The quick exit...embarrassment? :(

[kenberg]

Perhaps my main purpose in posting was to make a plea for a little less haste in making judgments. This occurred just a little earlier.

 

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sat95hajdjt832ca6&n=skj73h763dakq5ck4&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1np2cp2sp4sppp]266|200[/hv]

 

I was South. Not a slam we want to be in, and indeed it made only 11 tricks when the spade finesse lost. But N would bid the same way if that Jack of spades were the Queen. I have partners with whom, after the 2♠ response, I could bid 3♥ as an exploration for a spade slam. But this was pick-up, usually the slam would be a stretch, so I just bid 4. It could have been wrong and, if so, it would be my fault. If partner sticks around, we can build on that. If he is out the door, we can't.

 

Kibbing a game, I watched a defensive botch. Third hand won the opening lead against a suit contract. Holding the AK in a side suit with the Queen in the dummy, he led the Ace, returned the original suit, and then left the table when his partner did not return a card to his King. A moment's thought would show him that the error was his. Had he played the King at trick 2 his partner would have diagnosed the location of the Ace when the King held the trick. There were other possible interpretations for the lead of the Ace.

 

From what I have seen, it is the players who make these sudden exits who most need to work on their own bidding and play. I suppose I could just say good riddance to them, but I decided to say a word or two.