Overcal too strong?

[plaur]

[hv=pc=n&w=shkj9daqj9cakt842&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=p1s2c4sppdp5cpp5sppp]133|200[/hv]

Teams. Partner dealt and passed. I overcalled 2♣ and doubled for takeout over 4♠. How do you rate my bidding?

 

In a recent article on bridgewinners is was recommended that you can overcall lighter when partner is a passed hand, cause he wont hang you, and you can get your suit in lighter. However if you also overcall a strong 18HCP hand like this, then the overcall has a *very* wide range here. I was not sure how to handle this.

[Fluffy]

I think you bid it pretty good, perhaps you can double 5♠ for penalty, you will socre more +300 than -650

 

I don't think you are too heavy for 2♣, but maybe you can double first to bring the red suits into the picture inmediatelly.

 

What I mean is that I might double instead of bidding 2♣, not because I am too strong, but because my structure is suited for a take out double.

 

 

I don't follow the passed hand partner rule you are adressing, if any I might preempt lighter with 3♣, not overcall.

[ggwhiz]

I agree with Fluffy. On this hand you will surely get another chance to bid missing all those spades.

 

If you start with double and it still goes 4♠ passed back to you, now what?

 

5♣ could take you past your last plus score and a 2nd double could really put pard on the spot.

 

Your auction gives pard the best chance to go right in that they shouldn't bid (especially a red suit) unless they mean it. Gotta double 5 spades though.

 

[Edit:] In response to the tuna below, 2 clubs is not the ONLY right call, just a matter of style. My pard knows I can be this strong for the posted auction cause we discussed it.

 

Anytime the opps steal that much bidding room you are boxed in but can pick which way to take your poison. My pard can bid 5 hearts with 6 of them but won't even think about it with 4.

[pooltuna]

Yes you are too strong to overcall so X and X again over 4♠. This gets your partner involved and tells him you have the xtra values. Those who are advocating 2♣ is the ONE AND ONLY RIGHT CALL!!! are forgetting they have a partner who could hold 6+♥ or ♦ and only 1 or 2♣.

[Fluffy]

Those who are advocating 2♣ is the ONE AND ONLY RIGHT CALL!!!

Are those ones the same ones that claim that the spaghetti monster is the ONE AND ONLY RIGHT RELIGION?

[vuroth]

I'll be eating pasta tonight....

 

I double then double again, but I think, as others have stressed, having an agreement with your partner is what's important.

[phil_20686]

i think 2c and dble are correct, but once partner pulls, I would try 6C. Partner doesnt pull these "value" dbles without some playing strength. You would be pretty happy to hit partner with xx hearts Qxxx clubs and the diamond K. Or Qxxx clubs and the heart ace. He is unlikely to pull to 5c with spade wastage.

 

People who are suggesting dble first seems surprising. I would not expect 2c to float very often, and if you are getting a second chance 2c must be superior to dble initially I think. I mean, its not completely clear, but basically your hand is good enough that if partner raises you should try 5c and its probably right, (or splinter/bid constructively depending on how much space you have).

 

I would imagine 2c gets passed out fewer than 1 in 100 boards, and not clear it will be the wrong thing if that happens.

[Finch]

I think you were fine on the first two rounds, but you might double 5S as well. You have so much stuff it is very unlikely to be making.

 

If you double 1S then double 4S, partner has no idea whether you have a 1=4=4=4 20-count or this hand. By overcalling in clubs and then doubling, you have shown 6 clubs and a very good hand, and partner actually has a better idea what the do.

 

The risk with overcalling 2C is that it ends the auction. Any time it doesn't, you have done better by bidding clubs then doubling.

[Quantumcat]

You shouldn't make a takeout double first round with a very good hand and not a perfect takeout-double shape. When you get pre-empted your partner has no better idea of your hand when you double the second time than when you doubled the first.

 

However, if you bid first then double the next time, your partner knows you have an approximate takeout double shape but a primary suit of the ones you bid, and a good hand. In this case, he won't go rushing to bid a four-card heart suit: with that you would have made a first-round takeout double. He knows you can reasonably tolerate hearts but won't be able to support four or five small.

 

On the flipside if you are too weak to bid a suit then make a takeout double after you get pre-empted, you should make a takeout double first because you won't get a chance to later.

 

In making your first bid in an auction, you should be thinking about what is likely to happen next and how you will handle it. If a particular bid will be able to convey more information in more auctions and give you more flexibility later on, then you should choose it in favour of one that will give you less. For instance, this is why we teach beginners to first bid the higher of fives: later on in the auction they can bid their second suit and have partner be able to go back to the first one at the same level. If they bid their lower suit first, they may later not be able to show their second suit at all.

[ahydra]

I prefer X and then X. That second X must show an awesome hand, likely with shape (no NT overcall), since you can't have a stack of spades and make a takeout double.

 

If you overcall 2C you may have problems catching up - eg partner with a flat hand with HQ and CQ won't be bidding over 4S, even though you have 5C making. If partner needs to know more, he can bid 4NT after the second X.

 

You certainly have enough to double 5S - don't let the opps get away with pre-empting you out of the auction! :)

 

ahydra