Reverses and bidding up the line

[Creeksider]

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We're taught to bid four-card suits up the line. If you end up bidding both suits you have a reverse, and that normally implies not only strength but also that the first suit bid was longer. This hand illustrates the issue, with GIB explaining the 2♠ bid as implying that responder has at least five hearts, when in fact responder had only two. Did GIB bid incorrectly here? Or is it merely a case where the explanation is incorrect in saying this type of reverse implies five hearts?

[nigel_k]

2♠ doesn't promise five hearts and it doesn't promise four spades either. Since it's the cheapest forcing bid and a 4-4 spade fit is not possible, 2♠ can be various hand types, e.g.

 

- Game force with diamond support, since 3♦ would not be forcing

- Game force with six card heart suit, since 3♥ would also not be forcing

- Values and shape for NT but no club stop

- GF with five hearts hoping to hear of three card support

- 5-6 in the majors intending to rebid 3♠

[aguahombre]

Glad to see one bot torturing another bot, as in this example. I don't think responder has enough to go slamming opposite a minimum opener with six diamonds. 3NT, rather than 2S, would have been the practical rebid.

 

I guess responder was using Nigel_k's first possibility, but I don't have to like it on this hand. 5D is a wrong-sided contract, if partner can't run the diamonds quickly and has no club help...so the gentle probe for the right strain seems wrong.

[Gerben42]

Other than that the auction was a bit long, the bots did fine. I would also have preferred a simple 3NT.

[Lurpoa]

Handviewer link

 

We're taught to bid four-card suits up the line. If you end up bidding both suits you have a reverse, and that normally implies not only strength but also that the first suit bid was longer. This hand illustrates the issue, with GIB explaining the 2♠ bid as implying that responder has at least five hearts, when in fact responder had only two. Did GIB bid incorrectly here? Or is it merely a case where the explanation is incorrect in saying this type of reverse implies five hearts?

 

 

I am not really familiar with GIB.

 

(BTW: this is a SAYC and 2/1 Forum - there is another forum with more GIB experience)

 

Playing SAYC or BWS2001: I would say that the 2♠ rebid would promess 4♠ and 5♥, and is 1round forcing (no, I cannot find any arguments, that this should be GF)

[helene_t]

I don't think this auction has much to do with system. Whether one plays 2/1, SAYC, Acol, SEF or w/e, responder needs to bid a new suit at his 2nd turn to create a force so this can't promise 4-5. He would need to reverse also with a strong diamond raise, or with a balanced hand with five hearts, looking for the right strain.

 

Of course one could agree to play 2♠ (the cheapest bid in a new suit) as a relay. But absent such agreements one has to resort to semi-natural bidding.

[Creeksider]

Thanks for the responses. I posted here rather than the GIB forum because I was trying to figure out the proper way to bid a hand like East's rather than raise an issue as to whether GIB did something wrong.