4 and 5 level doubles

[el mister]

Judging whether to sit for pard's double in a competitive auction is a difficult part of the game for me. Here's a hand I played last night - how do you rate each player's bids? (Acol was being played if that makes a difference).

 

[hv=pc=n&s=skj97hkqj4dkqc763&w=saq652h7dat82cjt8&n=sha63dj754ckq9542&e=st843ht9852d963ca&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1h1s2c4sdp5hdp5sppdppp]399|300[/hv]

[mr1303]

P - Good start...

1H - Playing weak NT 4 card majors this is the system bid - No probs

1S - Automatic

2C - Automatic (playing Acol)

4S - A touch fruity, but at favourable maybe ok.

X - If penalty, automatic (if take-out/cards, not so good)

P - Automatic

5H - Not so good playing weak and 4s, as partner is likely to have a strong no trump

X - Good

P - Good

5S - Terrible - 2 aces and a couple of tens is plenty of defence here.

P - Might as well double this one as well

P - Nothing else to do

X - Doubled 4S for penalty, definitely having a go at 5S

[nigel_k]

The South hand should downgrade to 1NT. No aces or tens and KQ doubleton is more than a one point reduction. After 4♠ South can't really double as you are not in a force so partner is basically always going to pull it. Better to pass smoothly and hope for a reopening double, otherwise collect in 100s and you probably have no game.

 

North has a difficult problem but if you are going to bid hearts next over their spade raise, you may as well just show a good heart raise directly over 1♠. Then if partner doubles you will know he means it, and if not he probably has five hearts.

 

West's 5♠ was awful. Partner will not expect you to have more than a singleton heart and there is nothing else about the hand that suggests offence over defence. You have forced opponents to guess and everything suggests they have guessed wrong.

 

East was blameless, except that if he has played opposite this West before he probably should bid only 3♠ to avoid his partner hanging him.

[el mister]

Thanks for the replies. I was sitting north and bid 5♥ - I was concerned that they might save when we had a shot at a vulnerable game.

 

Nigel, what do you mean by After 4♠ South can't really double as you are not in a force so partner is basically always going to pull it. Is it pretty standard to pull this double here? Just trying to understand the thought processes at work.

 

5♠X was 3 off, with essentially no game making (think a couple of N/S pairs managed to make 3NT)

[vuroth]

Fwiw, I thought both pulls of doubles were beyond awful. It's like nobody at the table realized that if you're short in their suit and partner doubled, maybe partner isn't short in their suit.

 

But what do I know?

[campboy]

Disagree with Nigel: after 4♠ South needs to double because he is not in a force, and he knows N/S have the values for game. You can't afford to take +150 instead of +500.

 

Both pulls I think are wrong (and the second is ludicrous). If North does pull the first double, though, he should bid 4NT since he doesn't know whether the right contract is 5♣ or 5♥.

[quiddity]

I don't have any experience playing four-card majors, but if we had this auction in 2/1 I would always pull the first double with the north hand. South's double just shows extras, not a stack. North has a void, an undisclosed heart fit, and a potential source of tricks. The vulnerability makes defending even less attractive.

[vuroth]

I don't have any experience playing four-card majors, but if we had this auction in 2/1 I would always pull the first double with the north hand. South's double just shows extras, not a stack. North has a void, an undisclosed heart fit, and a potential source of tricks. The vulnerability makes defending even less attractive.

 

Really? I don't get it.

 

If you really think partner is short on spades, then you must think opps have a 10-12 card fit. If they do, why on earth is partner doubling? With more than the 5 promised hearts, partner would bid on himself, yet here he is suggesting defense. Partner knows the vulnerability, too, you know.

 

For my money, north's spade void is a strong argument that partner knows exactly what she's doing when she doubled. If I had 2-3 spades as north, I would strongly agree with your assessment.

[quiddity]

Really? I don't get it.

 

If you really think partner is short on spades, then you must think opps have a 10-12 card fit. If they do, why on earth is partner doubling? With more than the 5 promised hearts, partner would bid on himself, yet here he is suggesting defense. Partner knows the vulnerability, too, you know.

 

For my money, north's spade void is a strong argument that partner knows exactly what she's doing when she doubled. If I had 2-3 spades as north, I would strongly agree with your assessment.

 

 

Suggesting defense? How would he suggest offense? Pass is not forcing, so either he bids on unilaterally without knowing about the heart fit, or he doubles showing extras and lets North decide what to do. South might not have short spades but he could easily be something like 3532 or 3622 with 3 small spades and extra values. Are you really suggesting that he should bid at the 5-level without a known fit, opposite a hand which might be an 8-count, which might have only 2 hearts, or might have only 5 clubs, or might have 2 spades? What is he supposed to bid?

[vuroth]

Ok, I had forgotten we hadn't shown support for hearts yet. Darned hypotheticals.

[nigel_k]

Thanks for the replies. I was sitting north and bid 5♥ - I was concerned that they might save when we had a shot at a vulnerable game.

 

Nigel, what do you mean by After 4♠ South can't really double as you are not in a force so partner is basically always going to pull it. Is it pretty standard to pull this double here? Just trying to understand the thought processes at work.

 

5♠X was 3 off, with essentially no game making (think a couple of N/S pairs managed to make 3NT)

The first step is to decide whether South's pass would be forcing, i.e. the whether the auction is such that you are always going to either bid on or double. I would say that is not the case here, an Acol 2/1 doesn't create a force and the E/W actions are not an obvious sacrifice.

 

If you were in a force, then pass by South would be encouraging and double would fairly strongly suggest defence. But since you are not in a force, double is just extra values. Since North will have very few spades he is not going to pass this double. South would normally have a hand like xxx KQxxx AQx Ax. But I am not saying that pulling the double is standard, just that pulling with shortness is normal and South knows North is short. If the N/S hands were something like xx Ax Jxxx KQxxx opposite xx KQxxx AQx Axx then North would pass the double.