simple auction, but what's 2c here ?

[ghow]

W N E S

 

(1♣) 1♥ (p) 1♠

(p) 2♣

 

How do you play overcaller's cue bid ?

 

Stephen was right original post was incorrect. Corrected now

Edited February 6, 2011 by ghow

[Stephen Tu]

2♣ here is insufficient.

 

If the auction were different [(1♣)-1♥-1♠-2♣], I usually play the cue bid as natural, non-forcing, on the theory that super-strong hands would have doubled first, and thus the strongest that overcalled generally can be bid by making a natural raise / notrump bid at an appropriate level, or splinter.

[ggwhiz]

Once the auction is fixed, I still play that as a strong ♠ raise just limited by the lack of a 1st round double.

 

We tend to overcall instead of double with 5♥ and 4♠ and any 14 count with 3♠ and a stiff club is plenty good enough.

 

I don't consider this right or wrong just a previously discussed agreement.

[mtvesuvius]

I usually play this as a cuebid if 1N was available, otherwise natural.

[Vampyr]

I am surprised so many people think 2♣ could be natural. It would not have occurred to me; I guess I live a sheltered life.

[Gerben42]

I wouldn't play this as natural but rather as a good ♠ raise, probably with 3 cards only.

[jillybean]

I wouldn't play this as natural but rather as a good ♠ raise, probably with 3 cards only.

Me too but I would probably have 4 cards, perhaps I should raise with only 3

[mike777]

W N E S

 

(1♣) 1♥ (p) 1♠

(p) 2♣

 

How do you play overcaller's cue bid ?

 

Stephen was right original post was incorrect. Corrected now

 

 

Iplay 2c is just a general force, pard has some extras and wants me to describe my hand. btw for me 1s was not forcing.

 

So that means with some minimum hand and 5s I rebid 2s otherwise I make some other natural rebid here.

[Finch]

It's just a matter of agreement. The two most obvious agreements are (i) a general force (often with 3-card spade support), or (ii) natural. I happen to play (ii) but have played both ways and have no strong feelings either way.

[lamford]

It's just a matter of agreement. The two most obvious agreements are (i) a general force (often with 3-card spade support), or (ii) natural. I happen to play (ii) but have played both ways and have no strong feelings either way.

I think Frances' method is right. I cannot see what you will do with five hearts and five clubs if 2C is not natural, but other hands can probably get by. I guess 3C has to be a spade raise.

[JLOGIC]

I think playing this as natural is horrible. There are a large group of hands like:

 

1)Ax AJxxxx AQx xx

2)Kxx AQxxxx x AQx

3)Ax AQJxx KQxx xx

4)Qx AKJxx AQx xxx

 

etc that both don't know which suit to play, and are quite strong/maximum in context of an overcall. On top of that we already have an almost unmanagably large range on our overcalls. Having no cuebid just makes this wide range even more impossible to manage. How can we rebid 2H on a 9 count, 11 count, and 15 count? And what about with 16 or 17, must we jump to 3H? What if our suit is bad, or we belong in another suit. How can we properly investigate strain if we have to make a crude jump? And how can we stop at a reasonable level while still showing our extra values?

 

The cuebid is more essential here than in most auctions where we have a cuebid based on our wide range, our lack of established fit, and the fact that even with a wide range our maximum cannot necessarily commit to the 3 level even with a fit (let alone with no known fit yet). Giving all of this up so that we can make a natural/weak bid of 2 of the opponents suit seems so crazy to me. If you happen to have their suit, just bid 1N. You will probably survive, and if not, whatever you got to the wrong partial on a very uncommon hand type.