mr1303 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sakj6h98d83cj9642&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=p1d1sd3sppdp4hpp]133|200[/hv] Again, the 3S bid was somewhat controversial, but do we bid 4S here, or double, or pass (or something else?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 3♠ isn't controversial, its awful. It is a distant 4th choice behind a mixed, limit, or simple raise. Anyway, I pass. Partner overcalled on a QT-suit, heard my bid, and isn't interested in playing 4♠ so he probably has some defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 If we were going to disregard partner's pass now, why not bid 4♠ before? This is an easy pass now IMO. No comments on the 3♠ bid lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 3♠ isn't controversial, its awful. It is a distant 4th choice behind a mixed, limit, or simple raise. Anyway, I pass. Partner overcalled on a QT-suit, heard my bid, and isn't interested in playing 4♠ so he probably has some defense.ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I don't know how we are supposed to answer when the question is whether to respect or overrule partner's decision after we have misdescribed our own hand quite badly. I also voted for pass but am starting to have second thoughts and maybe prefer 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 If the bridge world used this problem in master solver's club, I think we'd see the first unanimous abstain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I Passed to be consistent with my previous decision, even when I don't agreee with it. We made our guess, they made theirs, lets hope we made the right one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Would have made a mixed raise the round before (I think some of our values are clearly wasted to be making a limit raise). Would have made life much easier now. As it is, I'm having to assume we do not play mixed raises and my guess is to pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Since no explanations were given, I believe we should treat this horrible 3♠ bid as showing what we have. In that case, pass is very obvious. Abstaining is ofcourse much better... :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sakj6h98d83cj9642&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=p1d1sd3sppdp4hpp]133|200|Again, the 3S bid was somewhat controversial, but do we bid 4S here, or double, or pass (or something else?)[/hv]IMOAfter 1♦ 1♠ _X: 4♠ = 10, 2N (good raise) = 9, 3♠ = 5.Now: _P = 10, 4♠ = 9. The argument for passing is that it is consistent with your earlier decision: you may have jostled opponents into a Moysian fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I must say I'm somewhat amazed by the general dislike for 3♠. I think it's a pretty obvious bid :rolleyes: What exactly is your problem with it? By the way, for your information, it was made by a former national team member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I must say I'm somewhat amazed by the general dislike for 3♠. I think it's a pretty obvious bid :rolleyes: What exactly is your problem with it? By the way, for your information, it was made by a former national team member.I can only speak for myself, but 3♠ shows a hand much weaker. This hand can be treated as an INV or a mixed raise. In case of the INV we bid 2NT (or 2♦ if you prefer 2NT for something else), in case of mixed raise we bid 3♦ (jump cuebid below 3 of our suit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 weaker?? Come on, you have all of your hcp in the main suit. That screams for a preemptive bid. A mixed raise is something more like AJxxxxxxKxxxx and an invitational raise AKJxxxxxKxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 weaker?? Come on, you have all of your hcp in the main suit. That screams for a preemptive bid. A mixed raise is something more like AJxxxxxxKxxxx and an invitational raise AKJxxxxxKxxxx Had a thread about this last year and a mixed raise simply shows a hand in the range between a limit and a preemptive raise. RS says otherwise, but there are many things in that book that people don't play. Otherwise how can partner ever properly distinguish between AKJx xx xx J9xxx and Kxxx x xxxx xxxx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Well, he's not supposed to. Both hands have just about the same playing strength and ODR, so they're worth the same bid, don't you think so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 No, AKJx is not similar to Kxxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manudude03 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'd trust partner to not overcall on total crap, if his suit is QTxxx (if we're lucky!) then I'd be expecting opening values (or at least 10+). Meanwhile, if we have Kxxx, that generally points to partner having a decent suit so a weaker hand is possible. In the poll, I bid 4♠ (noting that it was what I would have bid the round before). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I must say I'm somewhat amazed by the general dislike for 3♠. I think it's a pretty obvious bid :rolleyes: What exactly is your problem with it? By the way, for your information, it was made by a former national team member.Emphasis added ;) Anyway I hate 3♠, AKJx is not Kxxx, two very different holdings should not be treated equally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 No, AKJx is not similar to Kxxx. That wasn't the point, and you know it B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) No, AKJx is not similar to Kxxx.AKJx is not Kxxx, two very different holdings should not be treated equally.Did Whereagles edit his original post after you said this? I can't see anything in what he said that suggests he thinks these two holdings are equivalent. Edited February 4, 2011 by gnasher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manudude03 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Did Whereagles edit his original post after you said this? It was Phil who posted the hands with AKJx and Kxxx, whereeagles merely said that they should be treated the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Had a thread about this last year and a mixed raise simply shows a hand in the range between a limit and a preemptive raise.That doesn't get us very far unless we also have agreement about what constitutes a preemptive raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I can't see anything in what he said that suggests he thinks these two holdings are equivalent.I'd better reply to that before someone else does. I suppose that if two hands have the same playing strength and the same offensive-defensive ratio, they also have the same defensive strength. AKJx in partner's suit is probaby worth one more defensive trick than Kxxx, so if that's what Han and MtVesuvius meant they're right. I don't think, however, that a one-trick range in defensive strength is too wide. I'd be more concerned about the difference in offensive strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 I didn't. He just cherry-picked the part he wanted to comment :) - very common in politics eheh :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 If you don't play mixed raises, don't you think you are a little weak for a limit raise? Personally I agree with Nuno and don't think the 3S bid is that bad. As to passing or bidding on, this is now an obvious pass - I am not going to double cross my partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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