mr1303 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=st64haj43da65caj4&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=p1sppdp]133|200[/hv] You may not agree with the first pass, but there you are. What now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Yes, I disagree with the first pass, but not everyone will. I think 2♠ is obvious what I'd bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I think the choice is only between some number of hearts. 2♠ seems to me like it should be a good hand with two places to play, and I don't have them -- I just want to play hearts. 3♥ seems right to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I thought this was a clear double the round before, and a clear 2♠ call now. We don't want to unilaterally suggest hearts, especially facing a partner who was under pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 2h pard is a passed hand and I wont play him for a perfect max. Keepin it low at mp. prefer x before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayin801 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Would have Xed before. I chose 2♥, this hand stinks. If RHO LHO can't come up with a 2♠ competition w/r then I'm worried we're losing the first 3 tricks in spades and something later. If he can then we can compete again later, knowing that partner has the spade shortness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Abstain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I bid 2♥, partner is a passed hand and this hand is not amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Would have doubled the round before. I bid 2♥ now. I don't understand aiming higher with a passed partner who doubled in protective position. What hand are we playing for to make game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlson Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Would have doubled the round before. I bid 2♥ now. I don't understand aiming higher with a passed partner who doubled in protective position. What hand are we playing for to make game? It would help to know if the opponents are the ones who would never pass 1♠ with 3, but assuming they're not, I dunno, how about x KQxx KQxx xxxx? If you think singleton spade is not possible, then it'll be a little harder, but how about xx KQx Kxx Qxxxx or the like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Does anyone think it at all inconsistent to say that this is both a takeout double of 1♠ and a 2♥ response to a takeout double of 1♠? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Does anyone think it at all inconsistent to say that this is both a takeout double of 1♠ and a 2♥ response to a takeout double of 1♠?I don't see why. Partner's takeout double contains hands that would bid 2H (ok, that's unlikely), 3H or 4H over our takeout double - as well as hands that would not bid hearts at all. Since we passed, we can't find out any more whether we have a heart fit, so we go low. Especially as it is impossible to show our hand now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayin801 Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I don't see why. Partner's takeout double contains hands that would bid 2H (ok, that's unlikely), 3H or 4H over our takeout double - as well as hands that would not bid hearts at all. Since we passed, we can't find out any more whether we have a heart fit, so we go low. Especially as it is impossible to show our hand now. Agree with this, and we'd probably pass any NF bid from partner had we made a takeout X. While partner is still likely to have a decent hand I think expecting something that might make 4♥ is optimistic, if partner even has 4 hearts. On a really bad day, partner has balanced with some crap like xxx, Kxx, Kxxx, KQx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Does anyone think it at all inconsistent to say that this is both a takeout double of 1♠ and a 2♥ response to a takeout double of 1♠?Not really. Our takeout of 1♠ was not to force to game right? If partner invites are we accepting given that he is a passed hand? We obviously have a different problem if partner is not a PH. Again, if we make a t/o dbl the round before, then we have bid our values have we not? Now that we have described a different hand to partner (not necessarily less in values, just a different shape and location of values), it's hard to know the best way to describe our hand from here. In the end, I guess this is why "abstain" is popular. We are discussing the hypothetical consistency between two different sequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCWryde Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Being Vul, Id trust my p, bid 4H.......I can visualize p's hand w 5-6 small H w support for both minors albeit 4-3 w prob 1 S at the most.....prob 9-11 count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Being Vul, Id trust my p, bid 4H.......I can visualize p's hand w 5-6 small H w support for both minors albeit 4-3 w prob 1 S at the most.....prob 9-11 count I never knew 'trust' was synonymous with 'hang'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 I think Dbl in 1st seat is really obvious, having to decide now what to do is rather difficult. I guess 3♥... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=st64haj43da65caj4&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=p1sppdp]133|200|You may not agree with the first pass, but there you are. What now?[/hv]IMOOver 1♠, _P = 10, _X = 8.Now, 2♠ = 10, 4♥ = 9, 2N = 8, 3♥ = 7, 1N = 5, 2♥ = 4. partner will have difficulty imagining the power of your hand, so is likely to pass an invitational bid, even when game is on. 2♠ is flexible but may wrong-side the contract.I never knew 'trust' was synonymous with 'hang'. Ye're a vera clever chiel, man, but ye wad be nane the waur o' a hanging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Does anyone think it at all inconsistent to say that this is both a takeout double of 1♠ and a 2♥ response to a takeout double of 1♠? No, depends a bit on what we expect for a balancing takeout double. I do think that 2H would be an underbid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Here is the full hand: [hv=pc=n&s=st64haj43da65caj4&w=sk3ht92dqt94ct965&n=s97hkq65d872ckq87&e=saqj852h87dkj3c32&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=1sppdp]399|300[/hv] Our pass the round before wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea, but it certainly is liveable. Especially since our 3 cards in spades make it likely pard is short there and will thus balance with some hcp. Which he in fact did. Having gotten here, most think we should make some sort of game try and I agree. The question is how hard should we try for game? Will a slight hint with 3♥ be enough or should we cue now and bid hearts later? As you can see game is cold, although it's lucky one: all the hcp are working full time and that is something the invitational bids at our disposal cannot gauge. For better or worse, overbidding works well here and I think 2♠ is more likely to reach game here than 3♥, so that will get a higher score. Only a few in the field reached game, though. You might notice opener could have made our task harder by rebidding 2♠ himself, since then perhaps 3♥ would be kind of our only choice. But he didn't. That's what happened at table anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Is North a passed hand or not? It makes a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 it is, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rduran1216 Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 pass 1st time is fine. 2S now, and 3H over 3C or 4H over 3H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Our pass the round before wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea, but it certainly is liveable. Especially since our 3 cards in spades make it likely pard is short there and will thus balance with some hcp. Which he in fact did. I think you're partly missing the point. When I double with my usual (4333 or worse) I'm not afraid of 1S-p-p-p. I'm more afraid of 1S-p-1NT-p, when it is harsh to expect partner with his few points and a suit or with the other major to compete. Also I definitely hate coming in later when I have a balanced hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 I just meant that pass or dbl are ok bids. None is clearly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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