4x1 25-count

[wyman]

In the context of a strong 2C, what is your approach with the following hand:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sakj8haqj4djcakq9]133|100[/hv]

 

1) 2C - 2D (neg/waiting) if you do play Kokish here? if not?

2) 2C - 2H (double negative)

3) 2C - 2D (0 or 1 control) if you do play Kokish here? if not?

4) 2C - 2H (2 controls)

5) 2C - 3D (6+, 2 of the top 3)

 

6) Anyone voting *not* to open this 2C?

 

edit: By 'control' I mean K = 1, A = 2

 

edit2:

7) 2C-(P)-2D(neg/waiting)-(X);

?

[Phil]

Big 3 suiters are a pistol to handle, and my preference is to open 1♣ and try to force if partner responds / get my suits in. But this hand is simply too good, so 2♣ it is.

 

I do play Kokish, so I would rebid 2♠. If partner raises spades, I'm not in great shape when he has xxx. If partner does not raise spades, I feel more hopeful about slam and would bid 3♣ over 2N. .

 

I also play 2♥ = negative, so I would rebid 2♠ (forcing).

 

Over 2♣ - 3♦, I'd just shoot out 6♦, assuming we have a way to show a solid suit in addition to 2/3.

 

I can't comment on the other methods, sorry.

[Fluffy]

I might open 1 or 2♣ not yet sure, if I open 2♣ it is obviously to show a balanced hand, when RHO doubles 2♦ I just pass

[nigel_k]

Close between 1♣ and 2♣ but I would definitely describe it as balanced if I opened 2♣. Pity you didn't give me a larger singleton but at least having the jack means we probably won't wrong side it.

[awm]

I'd describe this as a balanced hand of the appropriate strength (however my methods permit, Kokish if I play that).

 

This will occasionally get me in trouble when we have no major suit fit and partner has weak diamonds. However, it seems the "least of evils" compared to opening 1♣ on such a strong hand or pretending to hold a five-card suit in a sequence where the auction is already cramped.

[MrAce]

Close between 1♣ and 2♣ but I would definitely describe it as balanced if I opened 2♣. Pity you didn't give me a larger singleton but at least having the jack means we probably won't wrong side it.

 

Close ? :blink: No one considering to pass with this crap we hold ? I think you guys shd change your replies to PASS b4 Rainer sees this topic :D

[Hanoi5]

I also choose the NT road on this context. I open a Multi 2♦ to show this hand or a weak in a Major though.

[han]

Playing Kokish I would open 2C and rebid 2S. Not playing Kokish I would rebid 2H.

[whereagles]

I'll open 2♣ and fake a 5044 shape.

[Gerben42]

I'll open 2♣ and fake a 5044 shape.

 

And how do you do that?

 

I will just open 1♣ and hope to survive...

 

1♣ - 1♦ (♥) - 1♠ - 1NT - 4NT (p: whoa!)

[gszeszycki]

assuming we cant play 2s opener as showing (any 4441) or 4405 or 4450 21+ hand (my favorite)

 

 

This hand is just too strong to gamble on a 1c opening bid. Too many ways to make slam

when P has insufficient power to bid over 1C.

 

I would open 2c and over the almost inevitable 2d rebid 2H!!!

 

While I may not be happy if P has to bid 4h while holding

something like xx xxx xx xxxxx----the 2h rebid should give us

our best chance of finding a fit or discovering if nt is viable.

Let's face it if P is broke any number of NT is likely to be wrong

while we may still find a 44 heart or spade fit this way.

I would much rather lie about having a 5 card heart suit and use

up almost no bidding space then lie about having a 5 card club

suit and use up way more bidding space.

[aguahombre]

Anyone who plays 11-14 mini Roman 2D can easily incorporate a split range (11-14 or 23-25). We have been doing it for many years, and it actually has come up about 3 times. The fact that responder cannot pass 2D has been even less of a problem on frequency. Maybe one time where exactly 2D would gain. I don't think strong Roman with one wide range would work out, though.

 

A simplified explanation of the rebids: when responder bids a pass/correct signoff, the opener with 23-25 doesn't pass or simply correct. He bids the suit below his singleton at the NEXT cheapest level.

[ArtK78]

Anyone who plays 11-14 mini Roman 2D can easily incorporate a split range (11-14 or 23-25). We have been doing it for many years, and it actually has come up about 3 times. The fact that responder cannot pass 2D has been even less of a problem on frequency. Maybe one time where exactly 2D would gain. I don't think strong Roman with one wide range would work out, though.

 

A simplified explanation of the rebids: when responder bids a pass/correct signoff, the opener with 23-25 doesn't pass or simply correct. He bids the suit below his singleton at the NEXT cheapest level.

 

This treatment works very nicely for the three times in your lifetime that you hold a 3-suited 23-25 HCP hand. However, since you are then obliged to open 2♦ on all 3-suited 11-14 HCP hands, I am not interested. I hate Mini-Roman with a passion. It gives away so much information to the opps that their defense is mind-numbingly accurate when the 3-suited hand is declaring and, if they buy the hand, which happens with annoyingly high frequency, their declarer play becomes double-dummy. On the flip side, it seemed that the apparent advantage of describing a 3-suited 11-14 HCP hand with one call almost never resulted in a superior contract than standard bidding, and occasionally got us too high too fast.

[aguahombre]

This treatment works very nicely for the three times in your lifetime that you hold a 3-suited 23-25 HCP hand. However, since you are then obliged to open 2♦ on all 3-suited 11-14 HCP hands, I am not interested. I hate Mini-Roman with a passion. It gives away so much information to the opps that their defense is mind-numbingly accurate when the 3-suited hand is declaring and, if they buy the hand, which happens with annoyingly high frequency, their declarer play becomes double-dummy. On the flip side, it seemed that the apparent advantage of describing a 3-suited 11-14 HCP hand with one call almost never resulted in a superior contract than standard bidding, and occasionally got us too high too fast.

 

Hence, it is not useful for you. I respect that. Others might, or might not, be interested. For what it is worth, our defense becomes mind numbingly accurate if the opponents buy the hand, with every suit breaking badly for them. That is why the best defense to mini Roman is just to pass and lead trump.

 

In any case, there was a bit of interest the last time (over a year ago) I mentioned our version of split-range mini Roman. I sent them the full treatment. Not selling anything, but merely stating that there is an alternative. Many people read these fora, and some are interested in less than mainstream points of view. We find the main advantage is eliminating the 4X1 minimum as a possibility on other auctions; the fact that we can handle the OP hand, no matter how rare, is just a bonus bi-product.

[dake50]

What's your "4441 help me decide our fit, partner" bid?

I'd use that. (about 3% of strong hands)