Balanced 16 after both opponents have bid

[humilities]

[hv=pc=n&s=skj83ha8dkj32ca75&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=1dp1h]133|200[/hv]

 

Matchpoints, both sides Vul, unknown opponents playing 2/1. Your call?

[TimG]

I can't see the hand on my iPod, but I guess pass.

[han]

Double.

[mtvesuvius]

Double, 1N here isn't too safe and won't work out very often. Pass is making life much harder later. Double is the perfect in-between... Yes, I'd like to have another club, but I'll just tell partner I had a diamond in with my clubs.

[hrothgar]

The Ax in Hearts is a miserable holding for 1NT, so this is right out.

 

The choice would appear to boil down to Double versus Pass.

 

1. I have 4 Spades

2. Hearts have been bid on my right and I have two of them

 

Put these togehter and double is looking mighty attractive.

I wish that I had a 4th club, but nothing in life is perfect.

[Trinidad]

Double, 1N here isn't too safe and won't work out very often. Pass is making life much harder later. Double is the perfect in-between... Yes, I'd like to have another club, but I'll just tell partner I had a diamond in with my clubs.

Didn't someone in another thread tell you that you needed glasses? :P

 

I would pass, BTW.

 

Rik

[mtvesuvius]

Didn't someone in another thread tell you that you needed glasses? :P

lol yes, shot glasses please!

[gnasher]

1NT. "15-18 balanced with stops in the red suits" seems a better description than "Opening strength with both black suits".

[mtvesuvius]

The main reason why I dislike 1N is that we have 4♠, and this looks to be a partscore battle at best. We'll lose spades sometimes by bidding 1N and being R/R at MPs doesn't help either.

[paulg]

1NT for me. I don't really understand why many are so worried about the heart holding. Bidding in this position is a (presumably justified) gamble and the hand will almost always have some negative feature, so if you are not prepared to dive in then you might as well use 1NT for some other purpose.

[nigel_k]

I prefer 1NT and also am not that worried about hearts. It's only the one level. I think 1NT will work out better if partner doesn't have spades and we still have a chance to find a 4-4 spade fit after 1NT.

[barmar]

I dislike bidding 1NT with holdings like this, which is why I usually play Sandwich NT (showing a weak distributional hand with the other two suits).

 

I pass with this hand, I just don't see enough upside to doubling. What's the chance that we have a fit in the black suits? LHO hasn't announced a fit with RHO's hearts, that could be partner's only 4-card suit. The double also gives LHO the possibility of a support redouble. So partner might have to bid a 3-card spade suit, and then take heart ruffs in the long hand.

 

If LHO raises hearts and it passes around to me, I'll probably balance.

[Gerben42]

Pass, second choice Double. Overcalling 1NT naturally is fine when only one opponent has bid, but when two have bid it's playing with fire.

 

If it goes 2♥ Pass Pass I'll revive the bidding.

[Fluffy]

I don't normally play 1Nt natural on this position, but if I did, wouldn't it be for hands like these?

[barmar]

Yes, I guess if you play 1NT natural this would be the kind of hand. It's a bit much to expect double stoppers in both opponents' suits.

 

Which is why I think natural 1NT is a silly bid. If you have their suits well stopped, it just means that the opponents have much of their strength in their side suits, which you don't have protected. Unless both opponents are bidding light, you can't expect much help from partner. The only safety is if he has length somewhere and can transfer you out of NT. But if that's what you're depending on, you might as well double.

[655321]

I would bid 1NT, but double also seems a fine choice.

 

OTOH, I have no words to describe what I think of the pass.

[Phil]

I can't see the hand on my iPod, but I guess pass.

 

I can't see the hands on my Blackberry Curve either. Maybe we need to enable javascript or something?

 

I can see the hand on my PC and I double.

[Free]

Smartphones suck, so I'll just bid 1NT.

[peachy]

After two bidding opponents and a passing partner, I don't like 1NT natural anyway, and even if that were the method we play, I would not bid 1NT with this hand. Double shows spades at least, the flaw in the club length is acceptable.

[Hanoi5]

Double. I prefer 1NT in the sandwich position to show a distribuitional take-out of the unbid suits.

[hrothgar]

Yes, I guess if you play 1NT natural this would be the kind of hand. It's a bit much to expect double stoppers in both opponents' suits.

 

Which is why I think natural 1NT is a silly bid. If you have their suits well stopped, it just means that the opponents have much of their strength in their side suits, which you don't have protected. Unless both opponents are bidding light, you can't expect much help from partner.

 

Comment 1: From my perspective, the issue in not the lack of a double stopper in Hearts, but rather one of Heart length. Ax in Hearts is miserable for NT because you can only hold up once. Admittedly, this is less important declaring 1NT than 3N. Even so, I do consider it a very real concern.

 

Comment 2: I used to favor Sandwich NTs. I gave them up because people are advancing 1♣ and even 1♦ openings with complete crap. Look at the hands that Jason, Josh, and the like are bidding after a 1♣ opening. You need some way to show strong balanced hand and take some of the weight off "double".

[Finch]

I voted 'other' because I want to see the opponents.

If they need a solid 12 to open and a solid 6 to respond, I would pass.

If they from the modern school of hyperactive bidding, I bid 1NT.