Antrax Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 A man can dream :)(and more to the point, the average age of posters here is higher than is common on most internet forums, which has to count for something. I think.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 It seems to me that upvotes and downvotes are getting more and more like masterpoints: They are worthless and often awarded for not doing anything, but everyone wants them and is willing to fight over them. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 I think the analogy fails because what people want is the ability to grant something to others, unlike masterpoints, which I believe people fight to gain for themselves. So, one can at the same time not care about one's rep and still support up/down voting. Then again, even if the analogy holds, I'm not sure what the message was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Rain, here's one example to what I mean:http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/46280-well-heck-id-open-this/page__pid__552643 A new poster asks a question. Two posters manage to sneak in a relevant answer, before the mob gets to work. Fourth post feels obligated to joke, assuming the person asking the question will get it (probably a reasonable assumption, A/E forum). #5 tries to stay on topic, but is chided for lack of sense of humour. The following posts diverge to discuss something other than the thread's topic, that (if I'm following correctly) was brought up as a joke, then further jokes are made and the inevitable "BBO experts suck" meme that no thread can do without. Out of 15 replies, 3 answer the question in a serious manner, 3 answer in a sarcastic manner that assumes the person who asked in fact already knows the answer, the rest are jokes to varying degrees. I don't know the opening poster and maybe I'm making a big deal out of nothing, but as a (somewhat) objective observer, it seems like a poor way to answer a question.Sorry for hijacking the up/down votes thread - the "do we need more moderation" thread died without a clear conclusion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 An idea: Not sure if it is feasible or even desirable. Just running it up the flagpole. How about limiting an individual's capacity to downvote based on his own reputation. The more upvotes he receives, the more downvotes he is permitted to cast. It might need an individual to be able to undo a downvote if he is particularly keen to redistribute his limited allotment to a more recent post that is more deserving and has run out of credit. That would need there to be a facility to filter on posts that the user has personally downvoted. This would not guarantee that any individual downvote is necessarily justified or meaningful, but viewed as a whole, providing downvotes with some scarcity value would in general enhance their reliability as a guide to the post on which the vote is cast. Generally I think that it would be a good idea to permit a user to retract a vote (whether up or down). Perhaps that facility is already there - I have not attempted to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 The idea has been raised by two other people in page 4 of the discussion. It will certainly ensure up and down votes will be distributed in a more concentrated manner. Not sure that that's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 This whole up- and downvoting can have some advantages if it's used correctly, but it's not worth the effort imo. What are we trying to achieve and what's actually happening? Like I predicted, it's become a pure popularity contest. If a popular guy posts something, whatever the content, he gets upvoted when people agree. He hardly gets downvotes whatever he says, even if it's rude. On the other hand, unpopular people never get upvotes (even for posting the same stuff earlier than a popular guy did) but they get lots of downvotes for the smalest things (like using 'advanced' in the topic title when it's a simple problem, or making a choice that's not popular). From the beginning I've not been a fan of upvotes only because they don't achieve their goals, and I'm even less fan of up- and downvotes together because the situation is even worse. Making the votes public will make this an even bigger popularity contest. If a popular guy votes a whole crowd will follow. And if an unpopular guy votes, a whole bunch will vote the opposite to cancel his vote and support the poster (+ probably some extra downvotes for the post he makes later in the thread). If you all really want to keep the system, then perhaps we shouldn't be able to make for example 10 downvotes without a single upvote. Otherwise the average reputation will be very bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 The idea has been raised by two other people in page 4 of the discussion. It will certainly ensure up and down votes will be distributed in a more concentrated manner. Not sure that that's a good thing. Yeah, noticed now. Sorry. Just add my support for the idea, then (although I think that some of my post was unique) Also I have mixed feelings about whether votes should be anonymous. I can see benefits for both arguments (not least among which would be the complexity of programming involved). What would perhaps be quite useful is to have your profile display not only your own net reputation (perhaps split into plus and minus totals), but also the total number of plus and minus votes that the user has cast. Of itself, this measure would not limit the number of downvotes, but if you are concerned that you might be seen to be a prolific downvoter, the "name and shame" aspect might act as a disincentive to use downvotes frivolously. If you were to decide to go down the route of stripping the anonymity of votes, the above measure would have added value. If someone identifiable were to downvote a post, then the poster could look at the stats of the voter to see the rep of the voter and also his propensity to vote in one way or another. Both of these stats would be of value to the poster in determining how much weight he should place on the vote as being justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Generally I think that it would be a good idea to permit a user to retract a vote (whether up or down). Perhaps that facility is already there - I have not attempted to check. I would like this very much. I have distributed loads of upvotes when trying to hit "reply" or "multiquote". While this is not really a problem, now that we can downvote I may give them out accidentally too, and I would hate to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Names of voters enabled (for now). I can't see options to limit -votes by the person's individual reputation, but changing the +vote/-vote ratio is certainly possible.Also cannot see options to change votes that are cast. If most votes are used to rate particularly good posts, then the few who vote for other reasons wouldn't matter as much, theoretically, right? BBFers are more mature/intelligent than almost all other forums I've ever frequented, so this *could* work. I've mentioned why we decided to go ahead with voting when the new forums was created (wanted to let good posts rise to the top and be displayed more prominently). It's just that we haven't really gotten round to implementing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Interesting. Looks like yellows can vote up/down, but cannot be voted on? Seems odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjbrr Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Interesting. Looks like yellows can vote up/down, but cannot be voted on? Seems odd. I don't see a problem with this. If you strongly disagree with something a mod says or does, you should post about it and address it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 rather than be able to up/down-vote on the forums I would like to have a feature where I could up/down-vote commentators on vugraph. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Sure, but they're not really mods usually. Most yellows moderate only rarely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 My concern is this: I believe the officially appointed post moderators have done a fine job for the most part. They move threads when appropriate. They delete certain posts when appropriate. There are many hijacks in threads which are let go; even minor squabbles between posters are let go, and they contain items of interest mixed in with the vitriol even if I might not agree with them. The problem comes when self-oppointed monitors decide when humor is or is not okay, or when they just don't like what is being said; and they just press their little red button, rather than produce words to express their dissatisfaction. The minuses don't mean much to me, but an objective disagreement does. Others might feel they should stifle their creativity to accomodate the self-righteous monitors and their own numerical "reputation". That would be a shame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 I would like to have a feature where I could up/down-vote commentators on vugraph. I didn't know about this up/down voting feature before and I don't care as I think it's silly on internet forum but you get my first and probably last upvote ever for this ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 The problem comes when self-oppointed monitors decide when humor is or is not okay, or when they just don't like what is being said; and they just press their little red button, rather than produce words to express their dissatisfaction. The minuses don't mean much to me, but an objective disagreement does. Others might feel they should stifle their creativity to accomodate the self-righteous monitors and their own numerical "reputation". That would be a shame.If you're referring to my earlier post, I had no intention of offending anyone. It was just a handy example to showcase a phenomenon I feel is both very common and quite damaging to the goal of attracting new posters. I wouldn't have done so in public except in the past I've PMed a moderator and was ignored, so I find it difficult to rely on what standards I think are common to forums on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Isn't the little red button just a modernized version Pavlovian training? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 The problem comes when self-oppointed monitors decide when humor is or is not okay, or when they just don't like what is being said; and they just press their little red button, rather than produce words to express their dissatisfaction. If you're referring to my earlier post, I had no intention of offending anyone. It was just a handy example to showcase a phenomenon I feel is both very common and quite damaging to the goal of attracting new posters. I wouldn't have done so in public except in the past I've PMed a moderator and was ignored, so I find it difficult to rely on what standards I think are common to forums on the internet. Actually, no. You didn't merely press your little red button; you also produced words to express your dissatisfaction. Why would I be offended by reading your opinion, whether I agree with it or not? Your words didn't attack anyone, and last I looked it is o.k. to excercise the right to express one's self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 Thanks, just making sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 The plot thickens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 If you're referring to my earlier post, I had no intention of offending anyone. It was just a handy example to showcase a phenomenon I feel is both very common and quite damaging to the goal of attracting new posters. I wouldn't have done so in public except in the past I've PMed a moderator and was ignored, so I find it difficult to rely on what standards I think are common to forums on the internet.I see you have several reasonable posts in this thread that got downvoted by the same poster. I don't understand any of these downvotes and it seems to be a good example of a misuse of downvoting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 I see you have several reasonable posts in this thread that got downvoted by the same poster. How do you know this? Is it possible now to track downvotes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 How do you know this? Is it possible now to track downvotes? Click on the number that shows the vote totals, like a green 2 or a red 4. But back to cherdano's point about proper use of the voting. I myself was adding a down vote to each of the post in the "Plus vote give away" thread started by gwnn, where he promsied he would give you an upvote if you respond to his thread. The reason I was doing that was because I thought giving upvotes for a mere post in a thread was the wrong use as well. Perhaps I should have just deleted the thread instead, but I thought by giving a down vote, it would "fix" the problem. A couple of problemns with this occurred to me later. I couldn't remember who I had downvoted so I know I missed some, and I probably downvoted one or more post more than once for the same reason, so I stopped downvoting any of them. In hinsight, I probably should have deleted that thread I guess... or posted in and and then written an angry response when gwnn didn't vote my post up... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Do yellows really have the power to downvote more than once? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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