cnszsun Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sj32h432daq32cj32&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1hp2h3d4h]133|200[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 If you are asking "Would you bid 5D?", the answer is "of course". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 yeah I bite the bullet for 5♦ even tho I have no clue if I am attempting to make or bidding a sac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Nope. Feel free to call me a whimp. Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Unusually for me, I agree with the porcine and the piscine bids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 5♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Gonna pass. Give pard something normal like KJTxxx and a side ace and we're going 3-4 down vs game only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Gonna pass. Give pard something normal like KJTxxx and a side ace and we're going 3-4 down vs game only. That's a normal 3-level overcall? Wow, I guess I still have a lot to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 I would expect a whole lot more than KJTxxx and an outside A for a 3♦ call into a live auction. I bid 5♦ to make or a near make. I don't think it is close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Guys, this opps have bid and raised. 3♦ on a hand such as that one is next to risk-free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Pass. If pard has Axxx x KJTxxx Axx, 5DX is off 2 and 4H is not even making unless dummy is short in diamonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Pass. If pard has Axxx x KJTxxx Axx, 5DX is off 2 and 4H is not even making unless dummy is short in diamonds. And if partner's 3♦ overcall looks something like: Ax--KJxxxxxAQxx Both sides may be cold for their games. And please don't tell me that this is a 5♦ overcall. But I admit that this hand has only 13 cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 My partner has 14 cards more often than he has either of those 2 hands when he overcalls 3D NV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 That's a normal 3-level overcall? Wow, I guess I still have a lot to learn. No one is here specifically to teach you, but perhaps you should look up OBAR bids. (Opponents bid and raise).... partner will be short in hearts and long in diamonds. How much he has is, well, open for speculation in this case. Now for people who have never heard or played OBAR bids, then, no partner will not have as little as six diamnods to the KJ and and a side ace. But for others, that is about right for a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rduran1216 Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Are OBAR bids this uncommon? bidding 5D begs for 5 or 800. Partner is allowed to bid our hand after 1M p 2M just to compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 OBAR bids are not this uncommon, but what is the point of making one with this hand? Can ypu possibly outbid the opponents? No. So you are making a noise because you like the sound of your own voice. What pray tell, would you do with Art's posted hand? Double? Please!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 OBAR bids are not this uncommon, but what is the point of making one with this hand? Push the opps to the 3-level (without relying on partner to take a risky action on a weak flat hand with heart length)? Suggest a sac if partner shows up with diamond support and shape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Push the opps to the 3-level (without relying on partner to take a risky action on a weak flat hand with heart length)? Suggest a sac if partner shows up with diamond support and shape? Gives partner a chance to stuff up because he expects a better hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 OBAR bids are not this uncommon, but what is the point of making one with this hand? Can ypu possibly outbid the opponents? No. So you are making a noise because you like the sound of your own voice. What pray tell, would you do with Art's posted hand? Double? Please!! Well, I for one am certain that partner DOES NOT HOLD Art's hand. For one thing, that means that the Four heart bidder bid 4♥ on a minimum count or the 2♥ bidder raised on nothing. Why, they hold only 18 hcp for their 1H-(p)-2H-(3D)-4H. True opener could have a diamond void, but still that is a lot of bidding on very few hcp. The simpliest bid in bridge is to add your hcp to partners minimum when a fit is found to figure out if you have game chances. The 4H bidder added his to whatever the minimimum 2H was and said, yes, we have game. Let's assume for sake of argument they play constructive raises so a reasonable minimum is 8 points. Opener needs 18 points. With five for a void in diamonds, that means 13. Their 13 + 8 is still more than they can hold if partner has Art's hand. So let's dismiss that one. As for OBAR bids, you are not vulnerable. Your parnter has a reasonable understanding that you guys don't have game if he is weak (you didn't bid over 1♥) but there are alot of reasons for "pre-balancing" when short in hearts. He KNOWS you have something like 3 or 4 hearts and you couldn't bid over 1♥ and if he passes they might play 2♥. Larry Cohen "preaches" (right word) about not letting "them" play in their eight card fit at the two level. So a lot of players with six diamonds and heart shortness NOT VULNERABLE will bid 3♦ on "any reasaonable excuse." Perhaps you will not, perhaps your partner will not. But to consider the possibiliy in a random post with no discription of the partners is surely not out of the question. In fact, I suspect that is the question. If partner has to have a hand like ART's, we all know what to do. What we have to factor in is the bidding, the vulnerability, and the likelyhood our parnter has actually read some books (noteably to bid or not to bid where I think OBAR BIDS might have gotten their name, but surely discussed). I have partners I would bid 5♦ with, and partners I would pass with. You can guess which ones play OBAR BIDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I take your points, Ben, but the op did not say this was with a pick up pd. Further one thing I really learned in a strong regular partnership, was to trust my partner. If my pd made a bid which we had discussed, (or had a meta agreement about), then I trusted him to have his bid, and not the opponents to have theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I bid 5♦. After 3♦ overcall and my ♦ holding they are making this 4♥. To be honest i am not expecting a both side making game situation here but i doubt 5♦ will go -800 or -500. There is a good chance we may get away with -100 -300 or even push them to 5 level. OBAR bids require special agreement. I didn't see original poster mentioning anything about it. But, yes, as Ben stated if we have this agreement then we shouldn't really get excited about that hand and just pass. In general i do not like OBAR bids except than 1♥-pass-2♥-2♠. The ones at 3 level gets complicated. Perhaps i am not good at using them efficiently but thats how i feel about them. Especially when opponents are opening very light and responding/raising on a dime. For the same reason i gave up on "sandwich NT" and playing natural 1 NT overcall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 It doesn't take OBAR to realize an overcall after opps shown a fit is a very safe move, even if at the 3 level and even with as little as 8 hcp. People have an intuitive notion of this, and that is why I wouldn't play partner for a solid overcall, even if undiscussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_dude Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I think the question is .. if you aren't raising his 3-level overcall with AQxx, what DO you need to raise your partner? Yes, I fully support pre-balancing, and if partner has a mediocre 3163 pre-balance (and the opponents make the right decision) then we are headed for a poor result. But that's pessimistic thinking. He also might have a real 3D bid .. with extra shape or extra values. When he has a real hand, and you don't raise with AQxx, next time he's going to feel like he has to do all the bidding himself. What's more, the opponents are very short in Diamonds and might take the push. There's alot that can go right. I think passing is an attempt to "thread the needle" by automatically assuming the opponents are getting 420 in 4H and you are going for 500 in 5D. In that respect it feels more like masterminding than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y66 Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I like 5D for the reasons Art, the Hog and others gave. But it's too much for me with that hand. I'll bid 5D with Axxx of diamonds and better shape, for example, xxxx x Axxx xxxx. Good problem for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 5♦ for me. Let's start with the assertion that 4♥ is cold. Does anyone question that? Assume our teammates are in 4♥. There are two bad things that can happen - and that is 5♦ goes for 800 or 500. Lose 9 or 2. Everything else is positive - including: - +4 for -300- +8 for -100- +13 or 14 or so for +400 / +550- +10 or 11 for +50 in 5♥ If I had to venture a guess, I would say 5♦ nets an average of -175. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.