Bid this

[OleBerg]

There has been a request to have more stringent moderation in the A/E forum. Many of the threads belong in a different forum (this one clearly does (for multiple reasons) - probably 2/1 + SAYC), and many responses to threads are not suitable much less accurate, and do not belong in an A/E thread. If you feel like giving an 'opinion', and you are a relatively newer or inexperienced player, than the A/E is not the place to post.

 

Fortunately, there is a very strong group of players that frequents the forums. About 12-15 are regulars that could either represent their country, or are competitive in national events if they are from a larger country. There are countless more players that either lurk on the forums, or post.

 

BBF is great; if you are a newer player, you can post a problem and get answered by a really good player whose opinion you trust in any forum other than the A/E. Isn't that awesome? It costs nothing.

 

Since bridge is a game that even great players are continually learning, really good players would like to post problems too, and have them answered by their peers, or perhaps players that are a notch above them. They have no interest in trying to sort out responses from people they do not know, or do not trust their answers. This is, or should be, the role of the A/E.

 

Until the A/E is better moderated, the forum will be self-policed. Like any tribe, the senior members have an obligation to keep the junior members in line. The junior players should look to this, not as a threat, but an opportunity to learn. If there is occasionally bitter medicine doled out, it serves as a check and balance.

 

If you aren't sure which forum to post a new thread in, think of it as the person that strolls into a Rolls-Royce dealership and asked what the Corniche costs. The salesperson sternly answers, "Sir, if you have to ask, you can't afford it". If you aren't sure what forum to post in, please don't post in the A/E and don't be surprised if you get an earful as a result.

 

Leave it unmoderated. As it is, it is a great learning place. When people get the reply "wrong forum", it need not be taken litteraly, but rather meaning: "The answer is obvious." People who think posters in here are stuck up assholes or similiar, should buckle up.

[OleBerg]

I don't like the idée of any restraints for posting here.

 

Post what you want, and if you get some heat; live with it or leave.

 

And for the good players: If you see a post you don't like, it doesn't take long to post: "Wrong forum". And if you don't even want to bother with that, don't worry. Somebody else will.

 

And for B/I players: If you post here, and you only get one reply that says "wrong forum" may suggestion is (Tada): Post it in another forum.

[OleBerg]

Agreed.

 

Disagree.

 

I am sure it never happens to you, but many advanced players sometimes makes bids they immidiately regret, and then have to try and salvage what they can. In my opinion such situations are fine to learn from. For instance it can highlight some of the reasons it was a bad bid.

[hotShot]

Look at at the last set of boards played in long matches at the final rounds of the Bermuda Bowl and learn that even WC player make stupid errors.

I see the merits of a B/I forum and an A/E forum, but unless every post is evaluated by an independent council, this will not work.

 

Take an example where a game could be made finessing the right side, this is most likely a question of counting typical for a B/I problem, but an expert could discover that a subtle double squeese is the better solution which would make the whole problem A/E.

[MrAce]

Leave it unmoderated. As it is ..............

 

I am fairly new here so i wouldn't know, is it literally unmoderated ?

[gnasher]

With the ability to upvote posts now, perhaps the criteria to enter should be, say, a reputation of 20? This would weed out the majority of people who make bad/unhelpful posts, and leave people who make enjoyable posts of some sort, whether funny, helpful, interesting, or some combo of all three.

That would have the effect of encouraging conformity and discouraging new members. I think that would be bad.

 

Anyway, the "reputation" figures don't seem correlate closely with expertise. For example, your suggested threshold would exclude dburn, wank, mickyb and rhm.

[gnasher]

I would suggest that we don't post auctions in the A/E forum where we know we have previously made a bad bid.

(In fact I would suggest this for any forum.)

That's going too far - you can still have interesting problems even after making a bad bid. Better advice would be "If you know you have made a bad bid, don't blame the system, try to argue that it's not a bad bid, or criticise others for saying it's a bad bid."

[gnasher]

Point is, it is possible to answer a question you think is obvious without being a jackass. Essentially everyone in this thread had the same response, but there's a difference between 2C is better than 1S, and "1S is ridiculous"

So describing a bid as "ridiculous" makes you a jackass? Maybe this post will cause you to reconsider that opinion:

 

http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry521568

[OleBerg]

So describing a bid as "ridiculous" makes you a jackass? Maybe this post will cause you to reconsider that opinion:

 

http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry521568

 

WD

[OleBerg]

I am fairly new here so i wouldn't know, is it literally unmoderated ?

 

No, but you have to be more than a stuck-up asshole to have a post moderated. (I know, because I've had one moderated. Completely unfairly off course :D )

[matmat]

So describing a bid as "ridiculous" makes you a jackass? Maybe this post will cause you to reconsider that opinion:

 

http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry521568

 

OH SNAP!

[655321]

So describing a bid as "ridiculous" makes you a jackass? Maybe this post will cause you to reconsider that opinion:

 

http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry521568

 

Interesting, but you are assuming that OP does not realise how he is behaving. I thought his posting style was deliberate policy, based on his premise and a logical fallacy:-

 

Many E are A.

I want to be an E.

Therefore I will behave like an A.

 

Certainly easier than studying bridge, but possibly not as effective in the long term.

[Cascade]

Disagree.

 

I am sure it never happens to you, but many advanced players sometimes makes bids they immidiately regret, and then have to try and salvage what they can. In my opinion such situations are fine to learn from. For instance it can highlight some of the reasons it was a bad bid.

 

Agree

[matmat]

-What are our criterias to determine if a post is advanced or intermediate or expert ? Is there such a clear border to seperate them ? Or are we all supposed to believe that it doesn't belong here just because some SENIOR members said so ?

 

-If we have criterias, what makes you or Phil or Matmat or me think ours is RIGHT and moderator's is WRONG ? (Since some of us mentioned forums needs work, or not moderated well enough)

 

There are no such criteria. I expect that a lot of people have a similar point of view here as the US justice system has on pornography -- they know it when they see it. Going by reputation, forum seniority, eloquence, length of hair, etc. is obviously not right.

 

I am nowhere near good enough at this game to be able to consistently, and accurately evaluate the level or merit of a particular post, but up to a certain point, I can tell.

 

I have a few suggestions here:

- before you make a post, give the problem to a few known, very good players. if you get answers that all lean the same way, or statements like "obvious," "not even close," "nothing else comes to mind," and so forth, then perhaps it is not a good problem, or not a good problem for players of their caliber. If you have a particular answer in mind, probe them about it. If you get such statements for conflicting answers, maybe there is something to it, experts disagree, and it will be a worthwhile post. This doesn't mean you shouldn't put it up if they agree, just that perhaps the A/E isn't the place for it.

 

- if the sole purpose of your post is to prove that your 'expert' partner did something wrong and that you are right, then maybe you shouldn't post at all. Of course this doesn't apply to B/I members whose knowledge/comfort level of the game is not very high and they might have doubts about whether they or their p messed up.

 

- if you're not sure where your post belongs, post in the general/interesting bridge hand forums. The same quality players that read A/E read those, and you will still get responses. Heck, if it is a good problem or interesting topic, they might even tell you it belongs in A/E, could even get moved there. I've seen a bunch of B/I threads (don't ask me to find them, i hate the search feature here) that turned out to be pretty intricate, generated lots of expert discussion.

 

- learn from prior mistakes (isn't that what this game is about?). I've not really seen that many derisive posts to a first thread that someone made to a forum. If you've gotten hints that you are posting in an inappropriate place and you ignore them, don't be surprised if there is a little bit of a backlash.

 

1- Forum is not moderated good, so like all tribes it should be self-policed by senior members and newer members should follow them !! Wow

I like the hands-off moderator approach here, intervening only where things get out of hand and abusive. I don't think a subgroup of the members should have special powers (perhaps in the B/I forum, as discussed elsewhere).

 

I have no problems (as you might have noticed) with people telling others what they think of the level of their posts, so long as it is not done as an ad-hominem attack -- ('4NT is idiotic', to me, at least, is different from 'only a certified idiot would bid 4nt').

 

2-Maybe a forum for invited people ? And make a bidding contest to figure who should be invited ? Votes and all ? WOW WOW WOW.

Yeah. invited people = not a good idea. who does the inviting? how do we make sure that everyone who is worthy gets invited? how do we decide who is worthy? What if bob hamman decides to make a post, how long would it take to get him cleared for a comment?

 

 

What is next ? Should members be required to have an A/E tatoo under their eye and MUST shoot or stab an intermediate to join the gang ? :D (Joke mate :) )

Joke? i didn't know you were capable of those, timo.

[rduran1216]

is this thread still going :lol:

 

I will attempt to not give problems with known preliminary errors in them. If you are offended and have never been in a spot where u made a bad bid, you are a true expert. I will refrain from asking advice on spots that an expert shouldnt be in, just didnt think so many people would get butthurt over suggesting this problem.

[jillybean]

is this thread still going :lol:

 

I will attempt to not give problems with known preliminary errors in them. If you are offended and have never been in a spot where u made a bad bid, you are a true expert. I will refrain from asking advice on spots that an expert shouldnt be in, just didnt think so many people would get butthurt over suggesting this problem.

 

LOL You just don't know when to stop.

[gwnn]

I do not agree with a word you say, but I will not defend to the death your right to say it.

[dboxley]

1) of course not, 1C followed by 2S over 1D or 1H assuming it goes that way.

2) plan on rebidding spades if allowed

[whereagles]

(...) Many of the threads belong in a different forum (this one clearly does (for multiple reasons) - probably 2/1 + SAYC)

 

Referring only to this bit, I would say the forum structure is outdated and could use a remixing. We have like 4 foruns for asking stuff about the hands we played:

 

- General

- 2/1 and sayc (95%+ of the people here play this or a similar system)

- Interesting hands

- Adv/exp

 

This is clearly too much.

 

(As for the rest, I don't think it's polite to ask newbies to the game to stay away from the adv/exp forum.)