rduran1216 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 The catch is you're playing standard american [hv=pc=n&s=sa9643hda3cakj975&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1hp1sp3hp]133|200[/hv] 1) Do you agree with 1S in a standard american context? 2) What now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Hi, #1 No - 2C, I have a GF and a good 6 card suit. #2 Call the waiter to get us some beer. But lets assume, I have a 5530 shape, I would be in the same spot, so ... The problem is, that it is not clear, what 4C means in the given seq., is it natural or is it a cue, for us, it would be a cue, so that is out. I would bid 6C, we are in the slam zone, 1P allwoed p to make a jump rebid, so it was not so bad afterall, 6C is clearly natural and showes a strong 2-suiter, although p will assume 6 spades, 5 clubs, if p bids 6H, I will pass. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 The catch is you're playing standard american [hv=pc=n&s=sa9643hda3cakj975&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1hp1sp3hp]133|200[/hv] 1) Do you agree with 1S in a standard american context? 2) What now? 2c easy abstain for rest ...nuts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 dup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
655321 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 1) Do you agree with 1S in a standard american context? No, we have a very strong hand with a suit of AKJ975 and partner has opened the bidding, There is no need to distort the hand by bidding our shorter suits first. Also don't see how the standard american part makes any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rduran1216 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 well lets say the auction goes 1H 2C2NT 3S3NT ? And now we're on a total guess whether partner is 3532 or 2533 or even 2524. This was my concern at the table when I bid 1S. Is this an unreasonable fear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 well lets say the auction goes 1H 2C2NT 3S3NT ? And now we're on a total guess whether partner is 3532 or 2533 or even 2524. This was my concern at the table when I bid 1S. Is this an unreasonable fear? Yes. After 3NT from p, you have the option to bid 4S, that showes 6-5, if you want to conceal the 5th spade in favor of making a forcing rebid,you could also bid 4C, that showes 6-4.Given than 2NT showed 12-14 bal. (???) together with your heart void, slowing down a bit is certainly not the worst decision, if p has fitting honors, he will march on. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rduran1216 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 pass yes I may miss slam/ but what is your point? I know I may miss a low pt 6nt or minor suit slam so? minors slam are hard~! I also might be down in 3NT while making 4S give p QJxAxxxxKQxxx its equally easy to show 2533 hands without a prayer in 4S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 well lets say the auction goes 1H 2C2NT 3S3NT ? And now we're on a total guess whether partner is 3532 or 2533 or even 2524. This was my concern at the table when I bid 1S. Is this an unreasonable fear? Yes it is an unreasonable fear. 1♠ is a horrible call, bidding 2♣ is standout. As to your scenerios, you don't have to guess; when you bid 2♣ then 3♠ and 4♠, you are showing 5 spades and 6 or more clubs. Partner will know that, and be able to correct 4♠ to 5♣ with 2 spades, for example. After all, your 4♠ bid does not end the auction. My biggest concern is whether 4♠ does justice to this collection; I would probably bid 4♣ just to make a forcing bid that won't end the auction, though I would also consider 5♠ as an alternative bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 1S is nuts. Distorting suit lengths in a likely slam hand is deadly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 6-5 hands are rare, and bidding systems are of necessity imperfect. It's not surprising that your system doesn't cope well with this hand opposite every opening hand. After 1♥, you have the choice: risk not being able to show the quality of your clubs, or risk not being able to show the fifth spade. Kx Kxxxx Kx Q10x makes a decent grand slam, so it's worth making some effort to investigate slam. The 3♥ rebid in your actual sequence made things very hard, but there are other, more likely auctions where showing ♣AKJxxx will be difficult, eg 1♥-1♠;2♦ or 1♥-1♠;2♥. Even after 1♥-1♠;1NT very few pairs could show 5-6, and not everyone could show 5-5. Some of your concerns seem misplaced: - After 1♥-2♣;2NT-3♠;3NT, partner won't be 2524, because he would have raised clubs. - "I also might be down in 3NT while making 4S". I don't think anyone is suggesting that you pass 3NT. - "its equally easy to show 2533 hands without a prayer in 4S". If it goes 1♥-2♣;2NT-3♠;3NT-4♠, partner shouldn't pass with such a hand - he should bid 5♣. Finally, after 1♥-2♣;2NT-3♠;3NT, I think that the correct action is 4♦, a slightly unusual use of Fourth Suit Forcing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 You bought yourself a real mess with the 1♠ bid. I think I would just bid 6♣ now and hope for the best. By the way, 1♠ turned out bad but it sure is a bid I might also make if distracted LOL. If you stop to think, 2♣ is surely better. Then you bid/rebid spades to show a game-forcing 6-5 and from there on it should be easy: 1♥ 2♣2♥ 2♠2/3x 3♠ or 1♥ 2♣3♥ 3♠etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Don't know if you knew this but you have more clubs than spades 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sa9643hda3cakj975&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1hp1sp3hp]133|200|The catch is you're playing standard american1) Do you agree with 1S in a standard american context?2) What now?[/hv] You should start again with 2♣. You have reversing values, so you have no reason to reply anything else. But more controversially, IMO you should consider 2♣ even with♠ Axxxx ♥ - ♦ xxx ♣ AKJxx Now 6♥ = 10, 4N (RKCB for ♥) = 9, 6N = 8, 6♣ = 7, 7N = 6, 5♥ = 7.How do you extract yourself from the predicament, in which your 1♠ bid has landed you?. The problem is that you have misdescribed your hand so badly that 4♣ will be taken as a cue-bid. Initially, I guessed to bid 5♥ but on refection that seems rather timid, so I suggest 6♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 2♣ not 1♠ please. Partner needs as little as Kxx, Axxxxx, xx, xx to give you a playable slam, and partner has a lot more than this. Not sure I have the necessary nerve to bid 6♣, but very tempted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OleBerg Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 dup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Since I play 4♣ now as cuebid, only 6♣ is left, that's my bid. I would also start with 1♠ on most 5-6 hands, but the suit quality disparity makes me think 2♣ is better this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolvyrj Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 1S was unfortunate, 2C and then spades and this would be easier, or then not, who knows. But what is done is done, water under the bridge and things like that. Im not an expert in standard american, but i take 3H as an reverse and round force at least, according to that i bid 4C as game forcing. Im going to a slam, which one, i dont know yet, but if prd bids hearts again its 6H. 6S is not a option since prd can support us next round with Jx or something like that. 6H, 6C or 6Nt r still available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 1♠???!!! Wrong forum. Seriously Aaron... I hate SAYC for hands like this, but 2♥ should be forcing anyway, so a jump to 3 is not necessary. I still think that you need some very defined parameters for a 3♥ call. It needs to say, "partner - opposite your 13 cards, hearts are going to be trump". Therefore, 3♠ is a cue and we'll let CHO take control until 5N anyway. If we miss 7♣ opposite x AQJT9xx AQ Qxx, its not my fault. However, people that go tot the bother of these agreements are not playing SAYC :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rduran1216 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 look i realize 1S is wrong. Seriously, you guys wonder why bridge is dying, when 75% of the good players are stuck up assholes all the time. And lets not get into "nobody would bid 1S, why is this in this forum, duh lolz, idiot, etc." I realize its a bad bid, it didn't take long after partner bid 3H that I knew I'd backed myself into a corner. I'm trying to decide between 7C and 6NT and how to navigate there. How about after 1H 2C 3H ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Not starting with 2C over 1H makes this mess unsortable. Reduced to 'by guess, by golly', unless BIT clarifies: slow C-bid only 4-suit;quick C-bid good 5+clubs.I hate to say too many players do just that way.Note: I did not say BRIDGE players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 If you post this in the A/E section and the auction starts, 1♥ - 1♠, then I'm sorry, but you are going to get these types of comments. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 75% of the good players are stuck up assholes all the time. I wish the % was this low :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 How about after1H 2C 3H ? The 3H-jump rebid after a 2/1 GF sets Hts as trumps and demands cheapest ( mixed ) cuebids. Is your Ht suit long enough and near solid to do that ? If not, a 2H rebid would suffice, showing extra length, but says nothing about "extras".This way you have enough room to show your 5s/6c at the 3-level ( via whereagles bidding, post #14 ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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