Was this hand worth an invite?

[Antraxxx]

[hv=pc=n&s=s98765haq852d74c2&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1c1np]133|200[/hv]

1NT overcalls were discussed as showing 15-18. At the table I reasoned that since P is balanced we must have a fit somewhere, even if it's those horrible spades, so the club singleton has to be worth something. So I judged my hand worthy of an invite to 4 of either major.

So the first question is, was this reasonable? The opponents, which seemed like good players, questioned my judgment after the hand.

 

Secondly, how do I go about bidding this? At the table, it continued like this:

[hv=d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1c1np2dp2hp2sp2np3hppp]133|100[/hv]

Was this reasonable?

 

Thanks.

[nigel_k]

You're right that you must have an eight card major fit and playing there will be better than NT. It's not really correct to add value for the club shortage because you will be ruffing in the long trump hand which doesn't create extra tricks, however two five card suits do make your hand worth more than a typical six HCP hand so you have enough to try for game.

 

The problem with your chosen sequence is that it sounds like 4-6 rather than 5-5 so partner will not correct to spades holding three spades and two hearts which is what you want. Alternatively, if you transfer to spades then bid 3♥, this is forcing rather than invitational. Partner can't pass with two spades and three hearts and a minimum. So that doesn't really work either.

 

There is actually no perfect solution for this hand type. You can transfer to spades then bid hearts twice which makes sure you play in the best fit but you will be in game which could be too high. Or you can bid Stayman and raise if partner shows a four card major. If partner bids 2♦ you just bid 2♥. Partner can correct this to 2♠ but will not go higher as the sequence is not invitational. This is what I would do on your hand. So you will be able to reach games when you have a 5-4 fit but not when you have only a 5-3 fit.

[Antraxxx]

Thanks a lot. I didn't think about the fact I'd be ruffing in the long hand :(

(though the story has a happy end, 3H made and 4H would've also made because they didn't defend correctly)

[fingolfin3]

Isn't transferring to hearts and then bidding 2♠ the standard way of showing 5-5 invitational? Partner should not bid 2NT, unless you have some sort of agreement on what it means (like "pick your better major"). So I think you bid this right.

[jschafer]

Isn't transferring to hearts and then bidding 2♠ the standard way of showing 5-5 invitational? Partner should not bid 2NT, unless you have some sort of agreement on what it means (like "pick your better major"). So I think you bid this right.

I would assume that would show 5♥+4♠ invitational undiscussed. It seems more important to be able to show 5♥4♠ invitational frequency-wise than 55?

[cherdano]

Or you can bid Stayman and raise if partner shows a four card major. If partner bids 2♦ you just bid 2♥. Partner can correct this to 2♠ but will not go higher as the sequence is not invitational. This is what I would do on your hand. So you will be able to reach games when you have a 5-4 fit but not when you have only a 5-3 fit.

I would follow this plan but raise to game if partner bids a major. Especially if partner bids 2♥ it's quite an underbid to raise to 3♥ only.

[fingolfin3]

I would assume that would show 5♥+4♠ invitational undiscussed. It seems more important to be able to show 5♥4♠ invitational frequency-wise than 55?

 

5♥/4♠ starts with Stayman and then bids 2♥. That's what I always assumed was intermediate standard.

[jschafer]

I would take that as 5♥4♠ to play (based on the reasoning that invitational sequences being less frequent and less important than yet another way to invite with majors). What would others assume the 1NT-2♣//2♦-2♥ and 1NT-2♦//2♥-2♠ sequences to be undiscussed?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

#1 the hand is worth an invite, if someone questions this, you dcan assume, that his playing strength

is not above a certain level

#2 The way you bid, showed an invite, with 5-5

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

Isn't transferring to hearts and then bidding 2♠ the standard way of showing 5-5 invitational? Partner should not bid 2NT, unless you have some sort of agreement on what it means (like "pick your better major"). So I think you bid this right.

 

This is one common agreement, but in the context of garbage / crawling stayman, the

seq. transfer to hearts followed by 2S will only show 54.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Wackojack]

I read this topic with interest because I raised the question of what various responses mean opposite an opening bid of 1NT when you have 5-4 (or better) in the majors.

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/43620-stayman-when-weak-with-both-majors/

 

In the context of this BI forum I assume that 2♣♦♥ responses would be the same as with an opening bid of 1NT and that Smolem is not in your tool bag. (and I am not saying that it should be) Then it is logical to assume that 2♦-2♥-2♠-2NT-3♥ shows 6 hearts and 4 spades. (Since hearts shown twice and spades shown once) 2♣-2♦-2♥ would show 5 heart and 4 spades and this is widely accepted as invitational. If you don't play Smolem (which covers game force hands with 5-4 in the majors), then the sequence 2♥-2♠-3♥raises a vexed question. It would be nice to say that would show 5 hearts + 5 spades, but then what do you so with game force hands with 5 spades and 4 hearts? I will leave that question hanging.

 

With your hand with such weak spades you could treat it as invitational 5 hearts + 4 spades and so go through Stayman. Or you could game force with 2♥-2♠-2NT-3♥. It looks like a close call.

[Antraxxx]

I think with game force hands with 5 spades and 4 hearts you could stayman then bid 3♠ over 2♦.

[jschafer]

I think with game force hands with 5 spades and 4 hearts you could stayman then bid 3♠ over 2♦.

Reverse smolen, aka natural :P

[Antraxxx]

I honestly have no idea what that post meant.

[nigel_k]

You can google Smolen.

 

I think it's quite a good method but there are plenty of more important things to work on and it doesn't help on this hand.

[Antraxxx]

My plan is to avoid learning specific conventions until I have a good grasp of basic bidding. Currently I'm having difficulty with far more common scenarios than "responding to 1NT with a game forcing 5-4 in the majors" :)

[jschafer]

My plan is to avoid learning specific conventions until I have a good grasp of basic bidding. Currently I'm having difficulty with far more common scenarios than "responding to 1NT with a game forcing 5-4 in the majors" :)

Sorry for the confusion, you were correct as to how you would bid the 54 majors GF. Smolen just means you'd bid the shorter major instead of your longer one (after 1NT-2♣-2♦), that way the strong hand gets to play the contract if you end in 4M (similar idea to transfers).

[Antraxxx]

Thanks. I read about it after, it just seems like a solution to a very specific problem, kinda weird for it to have a name :)