Cascade Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sthjt8432dkjcaqj8&n=skj976hdqtckt7542&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=1sp1n(forcing)2hppp]266|200[/hv] You know how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I know you are supposed to have 8 playing tricks to overcall at the two level vulnerable on these forums, but I would have no problem overcalling 2♣ with North. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I like overcalling on iffy suits or iffy hands or even both but I don't like overcalling when half my hand is in RHO's suit! It must be unlucky to have a 10 card fit with CHO when you have a 10 card fit with RHO as well :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted January 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I know you are supposed to have 8 playing tricks to overcall at the two level vulnerable on these forums, but I would have no problem overcalling 2♣ with North. I seem to get into a lot of trouble when i bid on this sort of hand. Partner bids hearts forever too often and I have nowhere else to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I wouldn't blame anyone for this - whether to overcall the North hand is a matter of style. Personally I'd overcall, and I wouldn't be overly worried about partner's bidding hearts. If he starts making constructive noises he'll usually have a couple of clubs, so 3♣ should be OK. The main danger of overcalling 2♣ is that we get doubled in 2♣, they play trumps early, and then we lose about eight black-suit tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I do not like North's second pass (except playing total points), though it could obviously have been right.Having not over called immediately, 3♣ should show such a hand, not some sort of fit. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I don't know what 3♣ 2nd round should show, but I'm going to bid it. Reason: the long spades make it likely pard has residual club fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 No blame. I might have bid 2♣ over 1♠, but usually not at these colors. Holding 5♠, I'm quite sure that opps don't have a ♠ fit, and that means there is a chance that neither side has a fit.So I have sympathy for passing 2♥, because we will play that undoubled, otherwise I can still run to ♣ or maybe LHO runs to 2♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcD Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I would not overcall 2♣ with this hand (not my style but works well on this hand) and i'm afraid 3♣ would definitely show at least some heart tolerance . Therefore pass is clear cut for me which is not a success looking at both hands ( no double no trouble) . I will reconsider if 2 ♥ get doubled (even then not so clear to run as partner figures to have a decent heart suit and possibly a heart diamond 2 suiter ; clearer to run at MP where the 2♥ is more likely to be some sort of prebalancing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I wouldn't blame anyone for this - whether to overcall the North hand is a matter of style. Personally I'd overcall, and I wouldn't be overly worried about partner's bidding hearts. If he starts making constructive noises he'll usually have a couple of clubs, so 3♣ should be OK. The main danger of overcalling 2♣ is that we get doubled in 2♣, they play trumps early, and then we lose about eight black-suit tricks. I always found that when I overcalled on suboptimal values / odr, the worst thing that happened was I got passed out and no partscore had any play. I suppose selective memory plays a role in my recollections, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Perfect auction, well bid! I don't like overcalling directly at all, but it does cater well to hands like this I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 2♣ is a horrible overcall, the kind of bid that goes -800 againts failing game. But 3♣ over 2♥ is not completelly hopeless, I wouldn't bid it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Indeed. I wouldn't bid 2♣ directly because it is my experience that "11+ cards in opener suit + my own suit = pard has the opposite 55 and we don't make anything." In this case pard appears not to have a 55 (no michaels cue or 2NT), so he either has a bucketload of hearts (in which case the worst that can happen is we go an extra down in 3♥) or residual club support. This makes 3♣ 2nd round more attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 If I had to blame anybody it would be South for entering a highly probable misfit auction where the opponents could have game values on shaky values of his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I would not overcall 2♣ with this hand (not my style but works well on this hand) and i'm afraid 3♣ would definitely show at least some heart tolerance . Therefore pass is clear cut for me which is not a success looking at both hands ( no double no trouble) . I will reconsider if 2 ♥ get doubled (even then not so clear to run as partner figures to have a decent heart suit and possibly a heart diamond 2 suiter ; clearer to run at MP where the 2♥ is more likely to be some sort of prebalancingAgree (only difference is maybe that I will hesitate less to run when they DBL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I always found that when I overcalled on suboptimal values / odr, the worst thing that happened was I got passed out and no partscore had any play. I suppose selective memory plays a role in my recollections, though.Yes, that's another bad thing that might happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I do sympathize. Pass a 2H partial, when 5C on.What methods are used? What is 3C>2H? A rescue? suit? Fit?Why is 2H overcall? Instead of X? Denies a 2nd place to play? Hopes to show 2nd?Imagine if you will 1S <P> 1N <X> . .2S <3C> p 3S(general F1) p 5C.Is that from the Twilight Zone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I am an agressive overcaller but i would not bid 2♣ with N hand for the same reason most people already said. I cant blame anyone in this auction to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtvesuvius Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 No blame, and definitely no 2♣ overall. All actions were normal IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Just use LTC next time, we have slam ambition! :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Just use LTC next time, we have slam ambition! :rolleyes: Its already my favourite excuse - "I had to raise partner I had 8 losers" after the contract goes two down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Why is 2H overcall? Instead of X? Denies a 2nd place to play? Hopes to show 2nd?Imagine if you will 1S <P> 1N <X> . .2S <3C> p 3S(general F1) p 5C.Is that from the Twilight Zone?Yes. At least, a takeout double with 1-6-2-4 with minimal values is from the Twilight Zone. Are you planning on passing a 2♦ response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Now that we're on to simulations, I entered the following script: produce 10000 dealer west predeal north SKJ976, H, DQT, CKT7542 1sp = hcp(west)>10 and hcp(west)<21 and spades(west)>4 and hearts(south)<6 and diamonds(south)<6 and clubs(south)<6 tsp = hcp(east)>4 and hcp(east)<10 and spades(east)==3 1nt = hcp(east)>4 and hcp(east)<12 and spades(east)<4 2he = hcp(south)>8 and hearts(south)>4 and hcp(south, hearts)>3 condition 1sp and 1nt and 2he and not tsp action average(clubs(south)), average(hearts(south)), average(hcp(south)) and got 2.0089 average clubs5.688 average hearts12.8296 average hcp This hints slightly at pulling to 3♣. Demaning pard to have 6 hearts leads to 1.7957 clubs6.4194 hearts12.7061 hcp This probably hints at pass. I would say it depends on pard's degree of recklessness when it comes to overcalls :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 whereagles I think there are a lot perhaps close to a majority of hands in your sample (1st) that would not overcall 2♥ - 9-12 with five hearts, even some with good hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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