humilities Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sjthadk54cakqt943&n=sakq98h432dqj32c2&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1sp2cp2dp3cp3hp]266|200[/hv] We play Lawrence-style 2/1 where 3♣ is still forcing to game, 3♥ is an attempt to get to 3NT, and 4♣ now would be non-forcing. How do you bid RKC for clubs? Is 4NT now RKC, regular blackwood, or Quantitative? Would a jump to 4♣ as his second bid have been this hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 4♣ is forcing, specially when 3♣ is forcing to game If it is not (wich is weird), you can bid 4♣ instead of 3♣ setting up trumps and forcing partner to cuebid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 This is a very easy judgement issue. After North bids 3♥, showing weakness there, South knows all his HCP are working and the only doubt remaining is whether to bid 6 or 7. Thus 4♣ + 4NT. Or 4NT if you play that it's RKCB for clubs (some people define a default trump suit as the one where 4NT bidder showed 6+ cards). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I agree with Da Flufster . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I also think 4♣ should be forcing. But if it's not, then I guess we can bid 3♠ along the way. 6♠ also has some play and pays more :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 We play Lawrence-style 2/1 where 3♣ is still forcing to game, 3♥ is an attempt to get to 3NT, and 4♣ now would be non-forcing. How do you bid RKC for clubs? Is 4NT now RKC, regular blackwood, or Quantitative? Would a jump to 4♣ as his second bid have been this hand? I would like to be playing that 4♣ is RKCB and 4NT is quantitative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 In typical 4♣ shows a slightly better suit I'm afraid. If you play Minorwood in auctions like 1♣-2♣-4♣ or 1M - 2♣ - 4♣, then I think 4♣ in this auction would be KC asking. I don't particularly like minorwood; I'm just demonstrating that it should be read as such if you play it. Slam should be bid here - minor suit small slams can be a little under 50%, and we exceed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humilities Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 We play 4♣ is not forcing here because we play 2/1 right off the Lawrence CD. In which case 4 of a minor is not forcing if: 1. Neither side has shown extra values, and 2) NT has been investigated and rejected. I think this auction meets both criteria. Interesting that 4♣ is forcing for all of you. Maybe we should reevaluate our methods. I like whereagles idea that 4NT is RKC for clubs for the reasons he stated. Thanks for that. I'm also coming to the conclusion that as long as we play 4♣ as not forcing, then the proper bid with this hand would have been 4♣ instead of 3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 We play 4♣ is not forcing here because we play 2/1 right off the Lawrence CD. In which case 4 of a minor is not forcing if: 1. Neither side has shown extra values, and 2) NT has been investigated and rejected. I think this auction meets both criteria. Interesting that 4♣ is forcing for all of you. Maybe we should reevaluate our methods. I like whereagles idea that 4NT is RKC for clubs for the reasons he stated. Thanks for that. I'm also coming to the conclusion that as long as we play 4♣ as not forcing, then the proper bid with this hand would have been 4♣ instead of 3♣. I don't have the Lawrence CD, but I have the book. A jump to 4♣ is definitely forcing. I'd agree with you that is 2/1 is a force only through 4 of a minor then the auction: 1♠ - 2♣2♦ - 3♣3♥ - 4♣ would not be forcing. As a matter of fact Lawrence originally advocated the 3♣ call in the above auction as NF. I would encourage you to re-evaluate your methods, and simply make a 2/1 an unconditional game force. While it is true that you lose the occasional where we make exactly '4♣', your slam bidding becomes much easier. For instance, on the actual hand, what can you possibly bid over 3♥ if 4♣ isn't forcing? It becomes a difficult problem. I do not agree with Whereagles that 4♣ is RKC. I much prefer quantitative (a 2326 18 count would fit - how can you bid this otherwise?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I do not agree with Whereagles that 4♣ is RKC. I much prefer quantitative (a 2326 18 count would fit - how can you bid this otherwise?). I think you meant 4NT. And yes, I agree quantitative is more adequate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A2003 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sjthadk54cakqt943&n=sakq98h432dqj32c2&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1sp2cp2dp3cp3hp]266|200[/hv] We play Lawrence-style 2/1 where 3♣ is still forcing to game, 3♥ is an attempt to get to 3NT, and 4♣ now would be non-forcing. How do you bid RKC for clubs? Is 4NT now RKC, regular blackwood, or Quantitative? Would a jump to 4♣ as his second bid have been this hand? [hv=pc=&nn=Humilities Partner&sn=Humilities&n&s=sjthadk54cakqt943&n=sakq98h432dqj32c2&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1sp2cp2dp2H(4th suit Forcing)p2s(Denies !H stopper)p4N(Asking RKC1430 in !S Last bid suit)p5s(2Keycards with Q!S)p6sppp {Inference from 2S bid=No wasted value in !H because unable to bid 2NT and all other points working in other 3 suits and playing 30 point deck. 6S bid = Missing only K!S or A!D}]466|400[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sjthadk54cakqt943&n=sakq98h432dqj32c2&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1sp2cp2dp3cp3hp]266|200[/hv] I've always questioned the use of 4NT as RKC for Cl.You might as well just bid slam, if you "feel" right about it. ONE key card ( 03 14, etc ) gets the 5D reply.... so you have to bid slam anyway: 1S - 2C! ( 2/1 GF )2D - 4C ( sets trump and asks for cheapest cuebid )4S ( surprise, surprise... NO red suit Controls, so have to have "stuff" in Spades for opening ) ..... - 6C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I've always questioned the use of 4NT as RKC for Cl.You might as well just bid slam, if you "feel" right about it. ONE key card ( 03 14, etc ) gets the 5D reply.... so you have to bid slam anyway: Well, some people play 1430... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Playing 1S-2C-2D-3C-3H-4C as NF seems reasonable. You might just have no heart stopper and it's time to bail out. Anyways, definitely like a jump to 4C on round 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 We play 4♣ is not forcing here because we play 2/1 right off the Lawrence CD. In which case 4 of a minor is not forcing if: 1. Neither side has shown extra values, and 2) NT has been investigated and rejected. I think this auction meets both criteria. Interesting that 4♣ is forcing for all of you. Maybe we should reevaluate our methods. I like whereagles idea that 4NT is RKC for clubs for the reasons he stated. Thanks for that. I'm also coming to the conclusion that as long as we play 4♣ as not forcing, then the proper bid with this hand would have been 4♣ instead of 3♣. The alternative to the jump the round before is to bid 4H. 4H cant be natural, and having already denied 2 spades, (we have 2 spades, but partner cant know that), 4 heats, 4 diamond, I think that the logic of the systemindicates, that 4H showes a selfsufficent club suit. Of course making the bid undiscussed, is asking for trouble. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxhong Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 You can probably play 1S 3C as setting up trumps in C. Otherwise, you have to bid 2C then 4C to set up trumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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