Splinter misunderstanding

[kgr]

[hv=pc=n&s=sakt932hd432cajt2&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1cp1sp2cp3h(Splinter/real%20H%3F%3F)p4hp4sp4np5h(2%20aces%20and%20a%20void)p6hp6sp6nppp]133|200[/hv]

3♥ was meant as splinter, but partner clearly viewed it as a strong hand with ♥.

We now agreed that 2♥ is forcing and 3♥ splinter, so this is not really the question.

But:

- Do you see any bidding that would make it clear after 4♥ that 3♥ was meant as splinter, ...maybe it is better to bid 6♣ after 4♥? (6♣ after 4NT would show an odd number of aces and a ♣ void)

- Do you agree with 3♥ or do you prefer 4♥ showing a void? I hoped to have more space after 3♥ to verify a ♦-control with partner before going to 6♣...Maybe I can as well bid a forcing 4♣ to see if partner can bid a ♦ control?

[HeartA]

[hv=pc=n&s=sakt932hd432cajt2&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1cp1sp2cp3h(Splinter/real%20H%3F%3F)p4hp4sp4np5h(2%20aces%20and%20a%20void)p6hp6sp6nppp]133|200[/hv]

3♥ was meant as splinter, but partner clearly viewed it as a strong hand with ♥.

We now agreed that 2♥ is forcing and 3♥ splinter, so this is not really the question.

But:

- Do you see any bidding that would make it clear after 4♥ that 3♥ was meant as splinter, ...maybe it is better to bid 6♣ after 4♥? (6♣ after 4NT would show an odd number of aces and a ♣ void)

- Do you agree with 3♥ or do you prefer 4♥ showing a void? I hoped to have more space after 3♥ to verify a ♦-control with partner before going to 6♣...Maybe I can as well bid a forcing 4♣ to see if partner can bid a ♦ control?

If 2♥ is forcing, then 3♥ must be splinter. Any unnecessary jump shift should be understood as splinter.

After North's 4♥ bid, South should not bid 4♠. Instead, (s)he should jumped to 6♣ (5♣ is also acceptable imo).

4♣ over 2♣ is also a good choice (bid over 3NT should be viewed as slam interest) for new partnership.

[mich-b]

If 2♥ is forcing, then 3♥ must be splinter. Any unnecessary jump shift should be understood as splinter.

 

After 1m-1♠-2m , responder (assuming 2♥ is forcing) needs a way to show an invitational 5-5 in the majors, and a way to show a GF 5-5 in the majors. so which one is shown by bidding 2♥ then 3♥?

I think that responder needs the 3♥ rebid for one of those hands (I think 3♥ as invitational 5-5 and 2♥-then-3♥ as GF is more popular , though we play it the other way around). I think this use for the bid is much more frequent , and valuable than splinter in ♥s.

[tolvyrj]

Thats the problem, if u meant 3H as a splinter u shld be sure its not misunderstood as something else. Now it was clearly understood so. And why not, u need something to show H suit as non-forcing and invitational way in that auction. Is 4H splinter, i would have took it that way, but im not sure what u prd would have done.

"And what would u have done wise guy...", two possibilities comes into my mind; 2D if u play NMF and even if u dont i can hardly see a way prd could pass that and 4C it shld be FG cause i can either pass to 2C or use 3C as invitational bid. Now prd can bring his/hers D control alive if (s)he has one and u can cue bid H.

[Fluffy]

I play 3♥ as nat, think that it is the normal thing to do but no very sure.

[han]

I also play 3H as GF with at least 5-5. 2H is NF, a 5-5 invite does not exist.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=sakt932hd432cajt2&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1cp1sp2cp3h(Splinter/real%20H%3F%3F)p4hp4sp4np5h(2%20aces%20and%20a%20void)p6hp6sp6nppp]133|200|[/hv] 3♥ was meant as splinter, but partner clearly viewed it as a strong hand with ♥. We now agreed that 2♥ is forcing and 3♥ splinter, so this is not really the question. But:

- Do you see any bidding that would make it clear after 4♥ that 3♥ was meant as splinter, ...maybe it is better to bid 6♣ after 4♥? (6♣ after 4NT would show an odd number of aces and a ♣ void)

- Do you agree with 3♥ or do you prefer 4♥ showing a void? I hoped to have more space after 3♥ to verify a ♦-control with partner before going to 6♣...Maybe I can as well bid a forcing 4♣ to see if partner can bid a ♦ control?

Possible splinter is a similar case from the appeals forum, involving a similar misunderstanding by an experienced international partnership.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I think the only way to show a Ht-splinter for Cl is if the following auction had occurred:

1C - 1S

2C - 2D! = cheapest new suit forcing, may be artificial.

3C - 4H! jump

 

The given auction showed a 5s/5h invite:

1C - 1S

2C - 3H jump

 

[ EDIT... I deleted some extraneous nonsense ] ...

Edited January 2, 2011 by TWO4BRIDGE

[kenberg]

I recommend the following agreement as a way to avoid such misunderstandings:

 

Default: All second round single jumps by responder are natural and invitational.

This does not preclude discussing and writing down exceptions, but it gives you a basis for getting through undiscussed auctions.

 

eg

1♣ 1♠

1NT 3♥

 

Unless discussed, it's invitational. With a forcing hand responder would bid 2♦ over 1NT (nmf) and then, if opener shows neither major, responder bids 3♥, 5-5 forcing.

 

You may or may not like this way of treating the above auction, that's not my point. With the default agreement you will both understand the auction as 5-5 invit unless you have discussed it and said, no let's not do that.

 

Similarly

1♦ 1♠

1NT 3♣

 

Invitational, unless discussed (and with six clubs, four spades imo)

 

Any such jump sequence can be discussed and assigned a meaning of your choice. W/o discussion, it's an invit.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I recommend the following agreement as a way to avoid such misunderstandings:

 

Default: All second round single jumps by responder are natural and invitational.

This does not preclude discussing and writing down exceptions, but it gives you a basis for getting through undiscussed auctions.

 

eg

1♣ 1♠

1NT 3♥

 

Unless discussed, it's invitational. With a forcing hand responder would bid 2♦ over 1NT (nmf) and then, if opener shows neither major, responder bids 3♥, 5-5 forcing.

 

You may or may not like this way of treating the above auction, that's not my point. With the default agreement you will both understand the auction as 5-5 invit unless you have discussed it and said, no let's not do that.

 

Similarly

1♦ 1♠

1NT 3♣

 

Invitational, unless discussed (and with six clubs, four spades imo)

 

Any such jump sequence can be discussed and assigned a meaning of your choice. W/o discussion, it's an invite.

I play the same for the NMF auctions.

 

Note for a splinter auction over Opener's 1NT rebid:

1D - 1S

1NT - 4C! ( or 4D! for that matter ) is a "self-splinter" for Responder's Sp ....

..........and likewise for 4H! ... if you can stomach that !

 

There is NO way for Responder to splinter for Opener's suit directly after the 1NT rebid.

You would have to "wait" for another suit rebid:

Say:

1D - 1S

1NT - 2C!( NMF )

2H - 4C! = splinter for Hts, since 3C would have been natural and forcing.