Babes and sucklings

[dburn]

[hv=pc=n&n=sak9854hkjd9876ct&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1d4h5d]133|200[/hv]

 

IMP scoring. East-West play five-card majors, 1♦ three cards only if 4=4=3=2, tend to open 1♦ with 4-4 in the minors, strong no trump. Both opponents are sounder bidders than your partner.

 

What call do you make?

[Scoti]

My highly unscientific answer . . . In a tounament I'll use my 30 seconds to practical considerations. 5 d looks almost cold, with p void in d. I want to score on them or minimize theirs. non-vul. 5H and see who dbls or doesnt, will tell me a lot. (also I give P credit that he would make his 4, and it does play better than it defends in any case. So I'm willing to put them to 7d if need be, risking 6h-2 lol, if I decide Ive pushed them to a good slam they might have missed, and they feel brave). I'm not willing to dbl and ask them to hurt me more. Then the only good thing that can happen, a successful defense, is a very small gain. But if they are preempting H and I talk P into pass with my dbl, that is very bad. Or they Make dbl is very bad. To pass and allow undbl Make is also very bad for us. So by process of elimination I must push on to where good things can possibly happen. }8-)

[Scoti]

Sorry having an Edit-challenged day ....

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&n=sak9854hkjd9876ct&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1d4h5d]133|200|IMP scoring. East-West play five-card majors, 1♦ three cards only if 4=4=3=2, tend to open 1♦ with 4-4 in the minors, strong no trump. Both opponents are sounder bidders than your partner.

What call do you make?[/hv]

IMO 6♥ = 10, 5♥ = 9, _X = 8. Close decision because you have good defence (your diamond-length could cause them problems) and opponents are vulnerable.

[Siegmund]

I'll bid 5H and expect it to make more often than not thanks to the club shortness (and of course will punish them if they push on to 6D, as long as that won't ask partner to lead a club.)

[Phil]

5♥. I think 6♥ is beyond loony-tunes.

[mohitz]

5♥.

[dburn]

Follow-up question: if you bid 5♥, is this auction forcing on the opening bidder? Say why, or say why not - there are many janitors who would love to hear from you.

[jschafer]

Imo 5♥ does not create a forcing pass. As far as your partner is concerned we could have a hand that is sacrificing over 5♦ right (especially at this vul)? For me, a Pass is forcing when we have shown game forcing values.

 

EDIT: Didn't realise it was opening side forcing pass :unsure:. Still not forcing imo, 5♦ could be weak at this vul.

[gnasher]

It usually turns out to be right to bid in these situations, so I bid 5♥. I don't think the opening side are (or should be) in a forcing pass situation.

[Fluffy]

Suggesting a 5 level sacrifice puts us in a classical forcing pass situation seems ridicoulous.

 

If instead of forcing pass you mean that over 6♦-pass-pass we are in that position where double is exactly 1 defensive trick and pass is 2 it makes sense if you play that convention (But I never did).

 

 

I would bid 5♥ in a flash, 6♥ is not likelly to make, we would need spades to run and that will happen when partner has ♠Q or 3 cards and some luck.

[kgr]

EDIT: Didn't realise it was opening side forcing pass :unsure:. Still not forcing imo, 5♦ could be weak at this vul.

Strange that you have "at this vul" or did you mean ",also at this vul"

[Fluffy]

I Also missed whose side it was a forcing pass situation.

 

5♦ bidder is wide ranged, and so is 1♦ opener, because of that, it makes sense to play forcing pass so that they have some room to invite moving on. But for the same reason there is a posibility of 5♦ having stretched to bid, and 5♥X getting 2 overtricks like on this deal. IMO unless you have strict rules about bidding game vulnerable creates a foricng pass you should not consider this one as forcing.

[han]

I would bid a non-forcing 5H.

[nige1]

Follow-up question: if you bid 5♥, is this auction forcing on the opening bidder? Say why, or say why not - there are many janitors who would love to hear from you.

Although vulnerable opponents have already bid to the five-level, it is still unclear who has the balance of strength or who is sacrificing against whom (or indeed whether anybody is sacrificing at all). IMO, in such contexts, unless opponents have some special agreement, there can be no forcing pass.

[pooltuna]

[hv=pc=n&n=sak9854hkjd9876ct&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1d4h5d]133|200[/hv]

 

IMP scoring. East-West play five-card majors, 1♦ three cards only if 4=4=3=2, tend to open 1♦ with 4-4 in the minors, strong no trump. Both opponents are sounder bidders than your partner.

 

What call do you make?

 

rethought how the hand would be played and still would call 5♥

[pooltuna]

Follow-up question: if you bid 5♥, is this auction forcing on the opening bidder? Say why, or say why not - there are many janitors who would love to hear from you.

I would say not forcing as he knows you cant tell if he is bidding to make or sacrificing.

[rduran1216]

toss up between 5H and 6H

 

Phil can't partner have the very likely

 

xx

AQ10xxxxx

-

Kxx

 

and with A of clubs probably onside 6H is untouchable

[Phil]

A forcing pass would not be created (by the side bidding the diamonds) unless I were a passed hand.

 

Perhaps the janitor thinks differently.

[Phil]

toss up between 5H and 6H

 

Phil can't partner have the very likely

 

xx

AQ10xxxxx

-

Kxx

 

and with A of clubs probably onside 6H is untouchable

 

If a frog had wings....

 

oh never mind.

[Siegmund]

Not a forcing pass for either side IMO though I can imagine opener's side having a special agreement about auctions like this.

 

@rduran: if partner has 1½ or 2 tricks more than he showed and we miss slam as a result, that's on his head, not mine. My partners arent "very likely" to do that to me, though it's not impossible for a leap to 4H to be a bit heavy from time to time.

[whereagles]

I'll bid 5♥ but not happy about it. If I knew opps were up to 6♦, I'd certainly try 5♠.

[rduran1216]

Not a forcing pass for either side IMO though I can imagine opener's side having a special agreement about auctions like this.

 

@rduran: if partner has 1½ or 2 tricks more than he showed and we miss slam as a result, that's on his head, not mine. My partners arent "very likely" to do that to me, though it's not impossible for a leap to 4H to be a bit heavy from time to time.

 

Are you tellin me with AQ 8th of hearts, u wouldn't bid 4H over 1D?

 

x

AQxxxxxx

-

Kxxx

 

or

 

Qx

AQxxxxxx

-

xxx

 

or

 

Jx

A10xxxxxx

-

xxx

 

6H is a winner over all these types of layouts.

[kayin801]

Are you tellin me with AQ 8th of hearts, u wouldn't bid 4H over 1D?

 

x

AQxxxxxx

-

Kxxx

 

or

 

Qx

AQxxxxxx

-

xxx

 

or

 

Jx

A10xxxxxx

-

xxx

 

6H is a winner over all these types of layouts.

 

Expecting partner to have 2 first round controls for his w/r preempt is kinda insane, not to mention a trump lead could leave partner with an additional club loser or two or an overruff on some of those hands if our suits don't break exactly as we want.

 

We're at the 5 level, we have no way of exploring whether partner has a good preempt or a bad preempt, and 5♥ gives us a good chance at a really good score.

 

Opposition are not in a forcing auction, 3rd seat can have 0-15 pts, give or take a few.

[rduran1216]

Expecting partner to have 2 first round controls for his w/r preempt is kinda insane, not to mention a trump lead could leave partner with an additional club loser or two or an overruff on some of those hands if our suits don't break exactly as we want.

 

We're at the 5 level, we have no way of exploring whether partner has a good preempt or a bad preempt, and 5♥ gives us a good chance at a really good score.

 

Opposition are not in a forcing auction, 3rd seat can have 0-15 pts, give or take a few.

 

holding 4D its impossible to think he has a void in diamonds in this auction?

 

Holding KJ of hearts, its impossible to think he has the A of hearts for his 4H preempt.

 

How about

 

xx

AQxxxxxx

-

xxx

 

I think its very clear what partner has. and its gonna be hard to find a hand where 6H doesn't have play.