Big balanced hand, no intermediates

[EricK]

♠AKxx ♥Axx ♦Ax ♣AKxx

 

The x are really small. What is your plan (NV at MPs if it matters)?

 

Eric

[the hog]

2C 2D 2N

 

I would bid the same way at all vulnerabilities at all forms of the game - the hand is too strong for a 2N opening, but not good enough to force to game opposite a random 0 count.

[luke warm]

i've seen more 2nt openings passed out than i've seen 2c then 2nt... i think a lot of times people don't like passing a 2c opening below game... anyway, i'm opening 2nt here since i *know* pard will pass if that's right or bid if it isn't

[Free]

2NT, damage control if partner has nothing...

[nickf]

2C-2D-2NT.

 

And twice on Sundays.

 

nf

[bearmum]

When I have the points to bid 2NT (AND NO 5 card major) I open 2NT SIMPLE B)

[bridgeboy]

I open 2NT here...

 

Lookng at the options given, I think the poser is more interested to see if we will end up in NT or suit contracts. I agree this hand will be hard to make 3nt since p has to provide 3 tricks.. However, I still open 2NT and hope my methods will uncover and suit fit if there is any...

 

I know 6C might be on with 3NT-1.. That's life B)

[hrothgar]

1. 4 Aces and 2 Kings is significantly stronger than 22 HCP

The fact that both AK combinations are in 4 card suits further strengthens the hand.

(K+R rates this as 23.6 HCP)

 

2. Given the strength of my hand, I prefer to start the auction relatively low and hope that the 2♣ opening accords me extra bidding room.

 

EASY 2♣ opening as far as I'm concerned...

[TimG]

Playing standard methods there seems to be little choice but to open 2NT or 2C. Yes, this hand is better than your average 22 HCP where slam is concerned, but if parnter has a balanced 4 HCP, we probably won't make 3NT. If parnter is balanced, and we have something like 28-30 HCP, it doesn't really matter that the controlls are concentrated in my hand -- it's still a combined 28-30 HCP. If partner is unbalanced, the controls could be very important. So, I'd choose 2N (knowing that we'll play there with some combined holdings of 24-26 HCP, but that's OK with me) and cooperate as much as possible if partner shows an unbalanced hand.

 

Playing with my favorite parnter, I can open 1♣ (or 1♠) without any fear of being passed there and missing a game. Our responding requirements are about the same as the responing requirements to a standard 2NT opening bid. Often that will mean a 1NT response on 4-6 HCP (even with a four-card major) which has the advantage of potentially right waying a 3NT contract. Playing 3NT from parnter's side could be a big winner.

 

Playing standard, I might open 1♣ and rebid 1♠ and then apologize when it doesn't work out. But, I realize I'm going against mainstream thinking.

 

Tim

[Yzerman]

If I play 20-21, I open 2C and rebid 2N

 

If I play 20-22, I open 2C and rebid 2N

 

If I play 21-22, I open 2C and rebid 2N

 

Bridge is a bidders game, and when you have GOOD cards you must bid as if you have good cards, and these are GREAT cards.

 

Another small hand evaluation premise that I utilize, whenever you have marginal hand for any bid (be it 2NT, 1NT, 2C-2N, etc) look @ your major suit holdings and evaluate hand in terms of "what if partner transfers me to a major". This particular hand, if partner has a little as either Spade Queen, Club Queen, or Heart Queen, or Diamond King (and 3 diamonds) AND a 5 card major we want to be in a major suit game. After opening 2N, you have little chance of getting to 4H or 4S if partner has a Queen or Diamond King with 5 card suit, while opening 2C and rebidding 2N will allow give you more opportunity to reach 4M. Additionally, give partner as little as QJx KQJxx xx xxx and now you have easy 12 tricks. In any event, these are good cards, and the only way I see to get "good cards" off your chest is to bid them as good cards!

[pclayton]

Open 2♣ and rebid 2N. At MP's, I can't afford to miss the impossible 3N, when 4♠ is rolling on the 4-3, or 6♣ on the 4-4 is peeling (chuckle).

 

At IMPs, I have a secret admiration for a 1♣ opening, followed by a 2♠ rebid.

 

Unless you are playing a full relay system, hands like this are hard to intelligently bid. Even a vanilla strong club will have problems with it.

[inquiry]

Phil is right of course. MP you got to start with a 2NT bid (you decide which way depending upon your range). And at imps, the best bid might very well be 1♣.

 

Ben

[luke warm]

for those of you who started 2C then 2NT over 2D, what's changed? that bid *should* show 22-24 hcp, balanced hand right? systems on, right?

 

now if you're playing 21-22 2NT range, what's the practical difference? do you think partner with a bust is going to raise the 2C/2D/2NT hand to 3, or do you think pard is gonna pass after you bid 2NT, regardless of how you got there?

 

even if, as richard said, this hand is *much* stronger than 22 hcp (because of the prime cards), so what? if you really think so, bid 3NT over 2D, else prepare to be passed at 2NT, just as if you'd opened it

 

what am i missing?

[hrothgar]

>for those of you who started 2C then 2NT over 2D, what's changed?

>That bid *should* show 22-24 hcp, balanced hand right? systems on, right?

 

23-24, more precisely.

 

>Now if you're playing 21-22 2NT range, what's the practical difference?

>Do you think partner with a bust is going to raise the 2C/2D/2NT hand to 3,

>or do you think pard is gonna pass after you bid 2NT, regardless of how

>you got there?

 

Partner may chose to bid differently after a bid that shows 23-24 balanced than after a hand that shows 21-22 balanced... Who knows, partner MIGHT even bid something other that 2♦ over my 2♣ opening. If so, the extra bidding space is sure going to help.

 

>even if, as richard said, this hand is *much* stronger than 22 hcp (because of the

>prime cards), so what? if you really think so, bid 3NT over 2D, else prepare to

>be passed at 2NT, just as if you'd opened it

>

>what am i missing?

 

That the hand is worth about 23-24 HCP, but not 25-27...

[paulhar]

what am i missing?

Say partner holds xx, Jxx, xxx, Qxxxx.

 

Partner will pass a 2NT opener but will bid game over 2C-2D-2NT.

[Fluffy]

If I play 20-21, I open 2C and rebid 2N

 

If I play 20-22, I open 2C and rebid 2N

 

If I play 21-22, I open 2C and rebid 2N

I am with you mate, rather easy hand IMO.

[luke warm]

what am i missing?

Say partner holds xx, Jxx, xxx, Qxxxx.

 

Partner will pass a 2NT opener but will bid game over 2C-2D-2NT.

if my partner opened a 21-22 2NT and i had the hand you show, i'd (probably) raise to 3... vulnerable at imps i know i would...

 

anyway, i was going on the assumption that partner had a yarlborough... i think he'd pass 2nt then no matter how it was reached

 

and richard, yes you're right it's true that partner might not bid 2D... that's probably the most compelling reason to open the hand 2C, but again i was thinking in terms of a bust in his hand

[the hog]

what am i missing?

Say partner holds xx, Jxx, xxx, Qxxxx.

 

Partner will pass a 2NT opener but will bid game over 2C-2D-2NT.

if my partner opened a 21-22 2NT and i had the hand you show, i'd (probably) raise to 3... vulnerable at imps i know i would...

 

anyway, i was going on the assumption that partner had a yarlborough... i think he'd pass 2nt then no matter how it was reached

 

and richard, yes you're right it's true that partner might not bid 2D... that's probably the most compelling reason to open the hand 2C, but again i was thinking in terms of a bust in his hand

If you would raise to 3 over a 2N opening you will lose more than you gain Jimmy.

The point is that you have so many controls the hand is too strong for a 2N opening. This hand has a chance for 4S opposite.

xxxx

x

xxxx

xxxx

[EricK]

This was my partner's hand, I had something like ♠Txx ♥Jxx ♦QJ9xx ♣xx.

 

Opposite this, if you open 2NT, you will probably play there and be 1 or 2 down (If you tackle ♦ by leading A and another, opps will not hold up the K. If you start with a small one, they might). If you open 2♣, you will be in 3NT and 2 or 3 down.

 

Obviously, one hand doesn't prove anything, but isn't it more likely that if partner has a bare minimum raise to game opposite 2♣ 2♦ 2NT then his few points and length are likely to be in ♦ and/or ♥ and therefore potentially useless to you?

 

At MPs, if partner passes 1♣ (or 1♣ 1♦ 1♠), aren't you probably better off than if you had opened 2NT or 2♣? If partner doesn't have a pass over 1♣ 1♦ 1♠ you aren't worse off, are you? And isn't that what MPs is all about - doing what works most often?

 

So, unlike Fluffy, I am not so sure this was an easy hand!

 

Eric

[Fluffy]

That´s right Eric, what I wanted to mean actually was that it was a clear decision to me, I wouldn´t even doubt between both

with the ♠J in dummy instead of ♠10 you would have a chance to make, given the hand you could even make if you get a ♠Q lead :).

 

The chances of having Q´s & J´s are exactly the same in each suit since you don´t have any of them, the chancees of having K´s are only for ♥&♦ (if I remember right), but they are wellcome to come since they are a direct trick, stopper & entry.

[luke warm]

If you would raise to 3 over a 2N opening you will lose more than you gain Jimmy.

The point is that you have so many controls the hand is too strong for a 2N opening. This hand has a chance for 4S opposite.

xxxx

x

xxxx

xxxx

probably right, ron... but vul at imps i'd still do it... i've seen too many 23, 24 hcp hands make 3nt, and the game bonus makes it worth the shot (imho)

 

as for the hand you posted, how would they find the (possibly making) 4/4 spade game? over 2C i imagine pard bids 2D (or 2H if neg), and if opener bids 2NT i can't see responder looking... but maybe he would.. a zero count opposite a known 23, 24 seems every bit as dangerous as a 21, 22 count opposite paulhar's hypothetical 3 count, maybe moreso since there are no entries even possible

 

and remember, i'm not even hinting that 2C is wrong or even that it isn't the best bid (too many of you, good players all, would bid it... so saying that would be *extremely* arrogant and dogmatic), just that i'd probably open 2NT

[whereagles]

You can bid 2C-2D-2NT or open 2NT. I find the hand borderline enough for psychological considerations to outweight technical ones.

[Gerben47]

At MP I like opening 2NT, which is only costly in most fields when partner passes and 3NT makes.

 

At IMPs you have to consider either 3NT makes or 2NT goes down, you should be in 3NT whenever possible. For slam purposes it is imperative to show the big balanced hand so 2♣ - 2♦ - 2NT.

 

Opening 1♣ and rebidding 2♠ at IMPs is imho ridiculous. Partner will stay out of ♠ slams because you cannot have so many controls and get into bad ♣ slams because you should have FIVE ♣ for this auction.

 

A simpler solution is to play Polish Club.

 

Gerben

[1eyedjack]

A simpler solution is to play Polish Club.

I don't know Polish Club, but I would be interested to know how it helps with this hand.

[the hog]

In PC

1C 1D 1N = 19-21,

1C 1D 2N = 22/23

1C 1D 2D = GF

 

Presumably Gerben is suggesting the second of these auctions. I don't really see an advantage here over Standard especially if you are playing Kokish over 2C.

 

Despite the result on the hand I would still argue that this is far to control rich to open with a simple 2N.