How common is Gambling 3NT these days?

[blackshoe]

That's not Namyats. The plethora of conventions in use today is bad enough; let's not confuse the issue by misusing their names.

 

I believe what you're suggesting is called (in this country, at least) Kantar 3NT. I agree that it's better than Namyats. Unfortunately, if I'm not mistaken, in North America it's a Mid-Chart convention. :ph34r:

[MARNICk]

I've recently changed to 2s as either minor weaker than normal 3cd as I think 2!s 5+!s -4/5+ m or 5+!s -5+any isn't very effective. Reading this thread I've came up with such an idea :

3nt - normal 4th level pree on minor . (Now we are able to play this 3nt which cld've been missed + this is nearly as preemptive as 4m) Can have side values or less than AQ AK - after x we just bid our suit without those top honours

2s - either m weaker than 3m openning . 6 crd m in some positions etc... or std gambling 3nt.

Now 2nt GF or just good siding opposite gambling

2s-2nt-3c/d nat 3h/s mb some 2 suiter both m 3nt is "gambling"

[glen]

Gambling 3NT is still very popular, but there are a set that require no outside stopper and another group that require one outside stopper.

 

Top level experts are starting to prefer better uses of the 3NT opening, such as world champ Fred who plays "3NT Opening bid in 1st/2nd is a preempt with at least 6-5 in the majors."

 

Some have tried 3NT with a solid/semi-solid major, the idea being 3NT would not be the final landing place.

 

My fav is a version of 3NT "to play", which produced a very long BBO thread some years ago - HNY all!

[JLOGIC]

I think people gamble with it way too much, but if I have 8 solid and no other stopper I like to be able to open it. Sure it's not very frequent, but why should a 3N opener be very frequent? It is simple enough so I'm fine with it as long as it doesn't become some Qxx xx AKQxxxx x red/white or whatever. I do like a couple of other things better if my partner will play them, but they are not frequent either..

[jillybean]

I think people gamble with it way too much, but if I have 8 solid and no other stopper I like to be able to open it. Sure it's not very frequent, but why should a 3N opener be very frequent? It is simple enough so I'm fine with it as long as it doesn't become some Qxx xx AKQxxxx x red/white or whatever. I do like a couple of other things better if my partner will play them, but they are not frequent either..

What other uses do you have for 3N?

[Gerben42]

My fav is a version of 3NT "to play", which produced a very long BBO thread some years ago - HNY all!

 

With an unpassed partner I think this is not a very constructive way to bid a good hand that might produce a slam in a minor.

 

I've recently changed to 2s as either minor weaker than normal 3cd as I think 2!s 5+!s -4/5+ m or 5+!s -5+any isn't very effective. Reading this thread I've came up with such an idea :

 

I have a strong conviction that a 2+♠ opening should show ♠ in some variation. The pre-emptive effect of the master suit should not be discarded lightly.

 

Some have tried 3NT with a solid/semi-solid major, the idea being 3NT would not be the final landing place.

 

This doesn't come up much either, but as Justin said, should it? It's just nice that if you have what would be a 5M opening pre-empt, that you have some way to show it before committing to the 5-level when 4M is your optimal contract. By the way if you play this, I like a 5M opening to show two tricks more than a 4M opening bid.

 

The one try at a 5M opening bid that I saw does not qualify:

 

[hv=pc=n&n=sakj986532hdk52ca]133|100[/hv]

 

This hand is too strong for a preempt, even though it might qualify for a vuln. 5M opening bid with 3 losers.

 

Fred may have a fond memory of this one :)

[mgoetze]

I've recently changed to 2s as either minor weaker than normal 3cd as I think 2!s 5+!s -4/5+ m or 5+!s -5+any isn't very effective. Reading this thread I've came up with such an idea :

3nt - normal 4th level pree on minor . (Now we are able to play this 3nt which cld've been missed + this is nearly as preemptive as 4m) Can have side values or less than AQ AK - after x we just bid our suit without those top honours

2s - either m weaker than 3m openning . 6 crd m in some positions etc... or std gambling 3nt.

Now 2nt GF or just good siding opposite gambling

2s-2nt-3c/d nat 3h/s mb some 2 suiter both m 3nt is "gambling"

 

By the way, I would like to suggest a really novel use for your 2♠ opening. 4-10 points with 6 (or 5 very good) spades, no side suit necessary. Try it, it's very effective.

[MARNICk]

Thx for the fresh view. Playing 2d- multi and 2h-flannery ,so changing 2d to wilkosz/nat and weak 2♠ I wouldn't be able to show weak h. Btw I played some brds using 2sp - wk minor/gambling and the score is positive so far. (flannery is unremovable http://bridgewinners.com/bidding-articles/375-i-love-flannery-im-serious . Also played it before reading that article ;]

[gwnn]

By the way, I would like to suggest a really novel use for your 2♠ opening. 4-10 points with 6 (or 5 very good) spades, no side suit necessary. Try it, it's very effective.

hunting + votes again? :)

[mgoetze]

hunting + votes again? :)

 

Yeah that han guy is getting too close for comfort. Wish I had come up with his post on LTC. ;)

[dboxley]

I don't have a strong opinion, but I will say that when I have played it (and against it) frequently responder has just two of the side suits stopped and 9 tricks roll in after an unfortunate guess on lead, and there is no play for 5m

 

Standard lead vs g3nt passed out is "the highest card in your hand"

[mgoetze]

Standard lead vs g3nt passed out is "the highest card in your hand"

And why do you feel the need to mention this 5 years later?

[Zelandakh]

And why do you feel the need to mention this 5 years later?

Obviously an attempt to win the Necro of the Year award for the end of year Posties. ;)

[Vampyr]

Obviously an attempt to win the Necro of the Year award for the end of year Posties. ;)

 

There seems to be a lot of it going around.

 

I play 3NT as South African Texas in a Major with a few partners, gambling with most others, and am fairly indifferent about which one. I am happy to defer to my partner on either of these or even Baby Blackwood or broken minor or whatever they want to play.

[Zelandakh]

Are you sure you mean SAT rather than Namyats here? 3NT showing a solid or semi-solid major is a convention that has certainly been gaining ground over the last years. Some others just use it as a good 4M opening without any strict qualifications. Personally, I like it as a good 4 level preempt in a minor, which takes the pressure off the 3m openings a little bit, but I am also fairly indifferent about it.

[Cyberyeti]

Why would you open 3NT anyways? When partner can stop 3 suits while opps can't take 5 tricks, and when he has at least 1 ♦ support, then you might as well open 1♦ and rightside the 3NT contract, play 5♦ anyways, or easily find a laydown slam.

 

You and partner like guessing the right thing to do when the auction goes 1♦-(1♠)-X-(4♠)- when a 3N bid may shut opps out and might put partner in a decent place to judge if it doesn't. It's not the best convention but it can do a useful job.

[gwnn]

I played fred's 3N (65 majors weakish) in two partnerships now and it has come up once, in bidding practice. But I still had a pleasant feeling the whole time knowing how cool it will be when it will come up. You can't put that in terms of imps. Well I know it will sound like Pascal's wager but try it! What have you got to lose? It really is a life changer.

[Vampyr]

Are you sure you mean SAT rather than Namyats here?

 

I don't know. Not sure what Namyats is, but I thought it was some sort of two-under transfer.

[mikestar13]

I don't know. Not sure what Namyats is, but I thought it was some sort of two-under transfer.

 

The terminology as I learned it (ACBL Official Encyclopedia of Bridge):

Namyats:

4♣ opening = strong 4♥ opening, for whichever definition of strong the partnership has.

4♦ opening = strong 4♠ opening.

Normally combined with 3NT = 4 minor opening.

 

South African Texas (SAT):

4♣ response to 1NT/2NT = transfer to hearts.

4♦ response to 1NT/2NT = transfer to spades.

 

I suppose that 3NTopening = strong major 4 opening might be called "reverse namyats" (This treatment is not legal on the ACBL General Convention Chart unless the major is solid.)

 

Terminology may well vary in other countries, which is why the regulating authorities tell us we should say what the bid shows rather than naming the convention when asked to explain.

 

[Vampyr]

Terminology may well vary in other countries, which is why the regulating authorities tell us we should say what the bid shows rather than naming the convention when asked to explain.

 

At the table, obviously. But this is a discussion forum; it's not the same.

 

In any case, our 3NT bid is neither SAT nor Namyats, just a stronger 4-major opening. We have some requirements involving length/solidity of the suit and outside values.

[Trick13]

...

But it is not very frequent. I think some (semi-)specific 5-6 shape would be more frequent and probably also a useful use of the 3NT opening but I have no experience with that.

 

Some simulations in dealer ...

You are dealt a gambling 3NT somewhere between 5 and 6 times every 10,000 deals, depending on your preferences.

You are dealt a 5M6M with 5 to 7 losers about 16 times

every 10,000 deals.

[MinorKid]

Just for the record, I meant on THIS hand. Playing gambling 3NT in a pickup partnership is probably best, but that doesn't mean I'd open 3NT on the hand given above.

 

Gambling 3NT is a gamble, if partner holds 3 Aces it's no longer a gamble, I know that. But with this hand, lots of the time 5♦ will be a lot safer (no need to gamble), or any NT contract (rightsided or not) may provide an easy 12 tricks. However, responder will only count on 7 tricks, not 8, so how can he accurately judge what the hand is worth (with AK, A and A he won't bid slam)? I'm sure most don't have an asking bid to know how long the minor is, most can ask about a shortness. But then which one should we show... ;)

 

3NT - 4NT -

 

Basically asking opener bid 6 if the hand contain an extra trick,

through is it for an 8 carder or 2 side Q's i have no idea.

[MinorKid]

Playing in an individual tournament, only 3 out of 29 dealers opened 3NT with this hand:[hv=pc=n&w=s8ht53dakqjt874ct]133|100[/hv]

 

Yes, I definitely will open 3NT provided my partner is familiar with the convention and the aftermath.

[rmnka447]

If you play Gambling 3 NT, you should know the response structure.

 

- ♣ bids at any level are pass or correct,

 

- ♦ bids of 5 ♦ or higher are to play - "I know your suit and want to play the hand from my side." Usually it's to protect a stopper,

 

- 4 ♦ asks for a singleton - 4 M= singleton or void in M, 4 NT= no singleton or void, 5 m= opener's suit with singleton void in other m.

 

- 4 NT - Do you have an extra trick? (8 card suit?) - 5 m= no, 6 m=yes

 

- 5 NT - Can you play opposite a void? 6 m=no, 7 m= yes

 

Unfortunately in an individual tournament, it's probably a very mixed bag whether one's partners know what to do opposite a Gambling NT. So I can understand the reluctance to use the bid there.

 

As for the responses, the occasional hands do come up that make them useful. Opposite a Gambling 3 NT, I held ♠ AKQJ ♥ xxx ♦ xx ♣ AKxx and ventured a slightly risky 4 ♦ versus a top team in a regional KO (5 ♦ could go down if partner held ♥ xxx). Partner had a momentary brain cramp and passed, but we were NV and the damage wasn't too severe as the (real) expert opponents sitting our way at the other table only reached 5 ♦. Partner's hand was ♠ xx ♥ x ♦ AKQJ10xx ♣ xxx. If partner finds the proper 4 ♥ bid, we would have landed a NV small slam swing which would have been enough to win.

[pescetom]

- 4 ♦ asks for a singleton - 4 M= singleton or void in M, 4 NT= no singleton or void, 5 m= opener's suit with singleton void in other m.

We invert the last two replies, but thinking about it your version is a little better.

 

- 4 NT - Do you have an extra trick? (8 card suit?) - 5 m= no, 6 m=yes

Our 4NT replies are - Pass= 7-card and no side Q, 5 in suit= side Q in suit, 6m= 8-card

 

- 5 NT - Can you play opposite a void? 6 m=no, 7 m= yes

Didn't know this one, thanks :)