raising a weak two in competition

[shevek]

Say it's IMPs, nil vul

 

It goes 2♠ - (3♥) - 3♠

 

2♠ classical weak. Double is penalties. What is 3♠?

 

Is it

a) "Pass whatever you have. I think the TNT is about 17. I know what to do if they bid 4♥." OR

b) "Bid 4♠ with a max. What else do you expect me to do with an invite?" OR

c) "I don't mind if you save over 4♥ with high ODR."

[mgoetze]

I have no idea what dynamite has got to do with this but I'm going for a.

[Siegmund]

A.

 

On the other hand, it could also be A.

 

Or aleph. Or alpha. Or door #1.

 

You have to be a loooooooooooong way from "classical weak" IMO for the other choices to come into it.

[nige1]

Say it's IMPs, nil vul

It goes 2♠ - (3♥) - 3♠

2♠ classical weak. Double is penalties. What is 3♠?

Is it

a. "Pass whatever you have. I think the TNT is about 17. I know what to do if they bid 4♥." OR

b. "Bid 4♠ with a max. What else do you expect me to do with an invite?" OR

c. "I don't mind if you save over 4♥ with high ODR."

IMO, with b, bite the bullet and bid 4♠.

Hence c.

[gwnn]

It is

d) Pass whatever you have.

 

The answer to b) is 4♠.

 

In unrelated news, I figured out what TNT means: total number of tricks. And sure, normally advancer will think it is 17 but sometimes he may be walking the dog or trying to induce opps to bid 4H so he can x them there instead or...

[barmar]

As others have said, it's A. The usual term for this is "continuing the preempt."

[shevek]

[hv=pc=n&w=skqt865h9da53c974&e=sa73ht86dkj974ct6]266|100[/hv]

 

Well I bid 4♠ which is almost irresistible. The diamond finesse lost but spades were 3-1 so it was all good.

Agreed that partner c/should have bid 4♠ first time to avoid the last guess but that's not the point. There are hands - with more defence - where East has no idea what makes and needs to consult. If that's a style with merit, East has to pass 3♥ with

 

♠Axx ♥KJTx ♦xxx ♣xxx

 

PS "TNT" from Payne & Amsbury's 1981 TNT & competitive bidding.

[mtvesuvius]

Clear A, and clear pass with Axx KJTx xxx xxx

[inquiry]

For what it is worth, attached is a PDF with 25 recent hands played on BBO were the bidding went 2S-(3H)-3S.

 

I restricted the search to dealer opens 2S with 9 to 11 hcp and a fairly decent six card spade suit (two honors or the ACE). The 3S bidder had to have at least 3S and not more than 4 spades. If I had shown the auctions, I would have had to edit out the players names, because a lot of the bids were sort of stupid on some of these hands. However, for all these hands the auctions started as shown above. The question might be, which ones SHOULD have started this way, and which ones should responder have bid something else. The hands are numbered 1 to 25, you can refer to them by hand number if you like.

3S.pdf

[barmar]

Who are all those wimps bidding only 3♠ with 4-card support and a side singleton? It's almost always either a make or a good sacrifice.

 

I guess it can work sometimes to confuse the opponents. For instance, on board 10, West is likely to assume that East also has two spades, and not look for the slam.

[peachy]

A. Leave responder alone, opener does not know why responder bid 3S. If you have an agreement that 3S is a generic invite, you are on extremely thin ice and typically will fall into trouble.

[han]

I too have been raised with the idea that preemptor has told his story and responder is captain. But I don't believe in it anymore. If you still only open weak 2's when you have 2 of the 3 top honors and little length or strength outside of your main suit, then I do think that you should play A. However, if you will open 2S on

 

(1) AQxxxx Qxx xx xx,

 

as well as

 

(2) KQ10xxx x QJxx xx,

 

and

 

(3) Q10xxxx x KJxxx x,

 

then I think you should play C. If the opponents bid 4H you pass with most hands, including (1), you double with (2) to suggest bidding 4S, and with (3) you just bid 4S yourself.

[Lurpoa]

Say it's IMPs, nil vul

 

It goes 2♠ - (3♥) - 3♠

 

2♠ classical weak. Double is penalties. What is 3♠?

 

Is it

a) "Pass whatever you have. I think the TNT is about 17. I know what to do if they bid 4♥." OR

B) "Bid 4♠ with a max. What else do you expect me to do with an invite?" OR

c) "I don't mind if you save over 4♥ with high ODR."

 

In this situation - and it is for IMPS ! - I like to play 3♠ as constructive. If my P is max, he can go for a 4♠.

[fromageGB]

I think "A" has to be wrong, because as Han says, opener can have a variety of hands and East can make no assumptions. So I'll go with "C".

 

If "A" was expressed as "Pass with a balanced hand because I expect the TNT to be about 17" then that gets my vote.

[whereagles]

classical meaning is a).

 

If responder is a passed hand, I have an agreement like this:

 

Dbl = hand c)

3♠ = hand a)

[gwnn]

I don't know - I would open 3♠ on Han's hands. I don't think there's much wrong with option c, though - it's just that I don't believe in it and I think there's a lot depending on a secondary fit, something that opener can never judge.

[pooltuna]

Well you just need to make an agreement and stand by it. I prefer "A" The others create restrictions on responder who under A has pretty much been given a license to psyche.

[Fluffy]

When my ODR is enough for one more I also opened 3♠ he previous round. But I also believe there is more point to allow the 2♠ bidder to bid again than what people think.

 

An even more clear example is a 3♥-(3♠)-4♥ bid, since the 4♥ bidder is on lead there is little purpose for this other than preempting the 4 level for the opponents.

[Phil]

I too have been raised with the idea that preemptor has told his story and responder is captain. But I don't believe in it anymore. If you still only open weak 2's when you have 2 of the 3 top honors and little length or strength outside of your main suit, then I do think that you should play A. However, if you will open 2S on

 

(1) AQxxxx Qxx xx xx,

 

as well as

 

(2) KQ10xxx x QJxx xx,

 

and

 

(3) Q10xxxx x KJxxx x,

 

then I think you should play C. If the opponents bid 4H you pass with most hands, including (1), you double with (2) to suggest bidding 4S, and with (3) you just bid 4S yourself.

 

Neither do I, however, this isn't child's play. As you state you need the double by the weak 2 bidder to say, "I'm bidding 4♠, but I'm doubling out of courtesy". Its a rare occurrence for me to overrule partner completely, but (3) is a pretty unusual hand type. Your spades need to be weak enough not to open 3♠, and the hand has to have a deficiency of QTs so that its not a one bid.

 

I also think KQT-6th, a 6331 and an Ace is a one bid. But thats just me.

[lexlogan]

Say it's IMPs, nil vul

 

It goes 2♠ - (3♥) - 3♠

 

2♠ classical weak. Double is penalties. What is 3♠?

 

Is it

a) "Pass whatever you have. I think the TNT is about 17. I know what to do if they bid 4♥." OR

B) "Bid 4♠ with a max. What else do you expect me to do with an invite?" OR

c) "I don't mind if you save over 4♥ with high ODR."

 

Close to a), though I'm not totally strict. If their suit outranks ours, c) would apply.

[barryallen]

Say it's IMPs, nil vul

 

It goes 2♠ - (3♥) - 3♠

 

2♠ classical weak. Double is penalties. What is 3♠?

 

Is it

a) "Pass whatever you have. I think the TNT is about 17. I know what to do if they bid 4♥." OR

B) "Bid 4♠ with a max. What else do you expect me to do with an invite?" OR

c) "I don't mind if you save over 4♥ with high ODR."

 

I can think of two major reasons for bidding 3♠, either as invitational to 4♠, or happy to play in 3♠ or defend 4♥. It's possible having the bid give both definitions should the opponents got to 4♥, but it has to be on the primary basis that opener raises to 4♠ with a suitable hand and no interference.

 

The next question is what to do should the opponents bid 4♥ and here opener has options to give partner, in pass, double or 4♠.

• pass being not good enough for 4♠
  
• double being good enough for 4♠
  
• 4♠ direct being a distributional raise
  

 

Giving partner now an option.

[rduran1216]

3H is my favorite bid white over partners 2S (with 0-5 HCP or 16+), unless RHO bids 3H of course

[gnasher]

I also think KQT-6th, a 6331 and an Ace is a one bid. But thats just me.

 

No, it's me as well.