AKTxx

[mich-b]

Amazingly those 2 hands occured in a single tournament :

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s9754h742d6cakt73]133|100[/hv]

[hv=pc=n&s=s742h7d8632cakt65]133|100[/hv]

 

In Both hands partner opens a 15-17 1NT (Teams)

(in hand 1 , pd opened after 3 passes , and we are NV.

in hand 2, pd was dealer and we are VUL against NVUL).

 

Would you Pass , invite, bid game? (on both hands or either one)

[inderdeed]

I'd force to game on the first and pass on the second.

[gwnn]

I see a conspiracy.

 

I'd pass on the second one too but I would just invite on the first

(assuming standard responses 2♣ and raise 2♠ to game and invite opposite 2♦/2♥ - I hope he shows his spades over 2♥/2N)

[Fluffy]

Agree with Csaba

[awm]

I would bid stayman on the first hand. If partner bids 2♠ then I will bid game, if partner bids 2♥ I will try passing, if partner bids 2♦ I will invite.

 

On the second hand I would pass.

 

My evaluation is that 3NT might make opposite a maximum, but will be quite iffy; this hand is not "really" worth an invitation. However, the first hand has the added upside of finding a 4-4 spade fit game (game rates to be quite good opposite 4-5♠ from partner) and of improving the partial into 2♥. Combining these extra chances compensates for the possibility of getting too high after 1N-2♣-2♦-2N (either failing in 2N, or bidding to 3N and going down).

[Flameous]

On first one I stayman (P bid 2S with both majors), invite over 2♠ (NV and P in third...). Over 2♦ I bid 2♠ NF minor suit stayman and if p bids 3♣ I'll go to game. I'm not so sure after 2♥, probably pass.

[pooltuna]

Amazingly those 2 hands occured in a single tournament :

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s9754h742d6cakt73]133|100[/hv]

[hv=pc=n&s=s742h7d8632cakt65]133|100[/hv]

 

In Both hands partner opens a 15-17 1NT (Teams)

(in hand 1 , pd opened after 3 passes , and we are NV.

in hand 2, pd was dealer and we are VUL against NVUL).

 

Would you Pass , invite, bid game? (on both hands or either one)

for the colors and scoring I would just pass. In the first hand if I was V I would venture a stayman call

[mgoetze]

I would bid stayman on the first hand. If partner bids 2♠ then I will bid game, if partner bids 2♥ I will try passing, if partner bids 2♦ I will invite.

 

I suppose you play German Standard, where opener's Stayman response with 4-4 majors is 2NT. :P

[mtvesuvius]

I'd bid stayman on the first:

->Over 2♦ I'd invite

->Over 2♥ I'd pass

->Over 2♠ I'd bid 4♠

 

On the second I'd invite however possible.

[nigel_k]

I'd pass both but obviously on the first one pass will often be wrong if partner has spades. This needs a simulation.

[mikeh]

On the first one, I adopt the volcanic approach: 2♣, passing 2♥, raising 2♠ to game and bidding 2N over 2♦.

 

Passing 2♥ will be sub-optimal if he is 4=4 majors, since in my partnerships, we respond 2♥ with 4=4, but it still rates, on average, to do better than 1N on such layouts...they will have at least 9 diamonds to play against 1N.

 

On the 2nd hand, I just pass.

[dellache]

Exactly the same as mikeh.

[mich-b]

For those who are interested in what actually happened:

 

1st hand opener had [hv=pc=n&n=sa653hak4da82c953]133|100[/hv].

My partner staymaned and raised 2♠ to 4♠. But ♠s were 4-1 , and no miracle in ♣s so we were down (same result in other table).

 

2nd hand opener had [hv=pc=n&n=sakqhaj8dqj7c6432]133|100[/hv].

My partner passed, and we lost a game swing when other table just bid 3NT , and found ♥KQ onside.

[Fluffy]

inviting rules 8)

[MrAce]

For those who are interested in what actually happened:

 

1st hand opener had [hv=pc=n&n=sa653hak4da82c953]133|100[/hv].

My partner staymaned and raised 2♠ to 4♠. But ♠s were 4-1 , and no miracle in ♣s so we were down (same result in other table).

 

2nd hand opener had [hv=pc=n&n=sakqhaj8dqj7c6432]133|100[/hv].

My partner passed, and we lost a game swing when other table just bid 3NT , and found ♥KQ onside.

 

 

Here is what i wrote in another topic about how i bid games :)

 

....... I am too agressive for bidding games, and extremely conservative with slam bidding. I don't even believe in making game trial bids, it is not even scientific to me. I believe when we bid a borderline game, a good outcome depends on 3 more factors than what me and my pd has and this is at the 3rd rank of priority among all 4....

 

 

I would have bid game with both of them. I seriously do not believe in invitations with that kinda hands due to shyness. A pass to 1 NT with second hand makes more sense to me than invitation if i am gonna choose the low path. All borderline games which are played apprx with 22-25 hcp, has much more chance to make if reached with minimum info for the defender on lead and in genereal for defense. But thats my style, to me game try = You bid it and try to make it. :P If NV, i wld have passed with 2nd hand.