How to bid to 3NT with 10 combined spades?

[twcho]

[hv=pc=n&w=skq643ha82dj7ck93&e=saj852h953da4ca52]266|100|Dealer West[/hv]

How to avoid the hopeless 4♠ and bid to the cold 3NT

[Free]

Nope, I can't do it.

[Rossoneri]

Neither can I. It's just one of those unlucky hands!

[Phil]

Its hard but not impossible I think. At MPs, I can see a weak NT getting boosted to 3N. Or, if you have a cheap way to show a minimum balanced hand after a forcing raise, that might work too. This is all guessing however, because if you move the doubleton to a rounded suit in either hand, 4♠ is better.

 

The key is to 3N is figuring out the hands are mirrored, although I suspect if you make an amazing stop in 3♠ that gets you the matchpoints too. If you could discover that West has exactly 5=3=2=3 through a 2♣ relay, like some strong clubbers do it, you can I think.

[mtvesuvius]

The key is to 3N is figuring out the hands are mirrored, although I suspect if you make an amazing stop in 3♠ that gets you the matchpoints too. If you could discover that West has exactly 5=3=2=3 through a 2♣ relay, like some strong clubbers do it, you can I think.

That's what I was thinking as well, but it's (nearly) impossible to know the honour location, which is what makes 3N a superior contract (even with the mirrored hands). I'd probably still be in 4♠, but it depends on East's view of the hand.

[Free]

Knowing about the mirror hands is not enough, you need to know that the doubleton vs doubleton is stopped as well. With the West hand, if you hear partner showing a 5=3=2=3, will you bid 3NT with confidence? With East it could be possible.

[gwnn]

hmm with simple symmetric relay:

 

1♠-1N (gf relay and all will be relays)

2N-3♣ (diamond shortness and one suiter)

3♦-3♥ (5323)

3N 4 controls (assuming we require 3 controls for opening)

 

and now east might pass?

he knows 2 controls are missing:

• could be the ♥A, in which case 3NT is fine as we have 5 spades 2 diamonds 2 clubs and 4♠ needs the ♥ finesse or some exotic endplay
  
• if it's two kings but not the ♠ K we're obviously fine in 3NT
  
• if the ♠K is missing we have every suit double stopped so 3NT will make.
  

 

did I miss something? yes, when I used to play symmetric relay I would just be lazy/practical and jump to game and not worry about it.

 

oh yes and we started with 2 controls, not 3. so we wouldn't have done it. it's been a while since I played it.

[lexlogan]

4♠ may make if either hearts or clubs break 5-2 or if someone discards poorly. I certainly am not going to waste time trying to avoid a 5-5 major suit fit.