3♣ both minors 11-15

[mgoetze]

I've seen a 3♣ opening as both minors, 11-15 one or two times now. Does anyone here play it? What I wonder mostly is how you use it to tighten up the rest of your system, e.g. what does 1♦-1x-2♣ show? Also, does anyone have notes on continuations... I have seen 3♣-3♥ "asks about number of hearts" which I found intriguing.

[mattias]

I've seen a 3♣ opening as both minors, 11-15 one or two times now. Does anyone here play it? What I wonder mostly is how you use it to tighten up the rest of your system, e.g. what does 1♦-1x-2♣ show? Also, does anyone have notes on continuations... I have seen 3♣-3♥ "asks about number of hearts" which I found intriguing.

 

We play 2NT as 12-15 55 minors. This distribution would otherwise go into 2m, and it would be a little too high to untangle. (1d is bal or unbal with a four card major, 2m is either 6+ or 5 with 4om).

 

Our continuations are

3m sign off

3h GF relay

--3s/nt 2155/1255

--4m 6+ suit

--4M 5530 with 3 in bid suit

3s inv with 6+ spades

3nt to play

4m invite

4M to play

[Siegmund]

I've used the 2NT opening specifically for both minors with clubs better or longer than diamonds -- leaving 1D-any-2C in a Polish type system to promise 5 diamonds and 4 or 5 clubs, and avoid the temptation to open 1D on 4D5C hands. I suppose you could use 3C for the same purpose.

 

The continuations I used assumed the both-minors opener was unbalanced (2245 hands opened the appropriate notrump range), and I raised 3H/3S replies much as I would over a 3m preempt (good honour doubleton or any three), but I have no great conviction that that's the perfect solution.

[mgoetze]

We play 2NT as 12-15 55 minors.

 

Sure, 2NT for both minors is an old hat (normally weaker but it's not much different. But I think 3♣ as both minors is much harder to defend against, I would almost consider playing 3♣ as both minors and 2NT as a club preempt.

 

The continuations I used assumed the both-minors opener was unbalanced (2245 hands opened the appropriate notrump range),

 

Well, if you stipulate 5-5 in minors then unbalanced is an easy assumption, but I can understand the attraction in taking the annoying 4♦5♣ hands out of 1m. But if you are playing Polish Club, how do you handle a 13-point 2245 after the bidding goes 1♣-1♦? Do you bid your better 2-card major? I'm sure there's a reason these hands are normally opened 1♦ in Polish Club... ;)

[the hog]

Sure, 2NT for both minors is an old hat (normally weaker but it's not much different. But I think 3♣ as both minors is much harder to defend against, I would almost consider playing 3♣ as both minors and 2NT as a club preempt.

 

 

 

Well, if you stipulate 5-5 in minors then unbalanced is an easy assumption, but I can understand the attraction in taking the annoying 4♦5♣ hands out of 1m. But if you are playing Polish Club, how do you handle a 13-point 2245 after the bidding goes 1♣-1♦? Do you bid your better 2-card major? I'm sure there's a reason these hands are normally opened 1♦ in Polish Club... ;)

 

Quite correct. There is very little harm in opening 4D 5C with 1D. I don't find those hands annoying at all.

Playing 3c as 5/5 in the minors is far better then 2NT however, as it takes away the 3C cue bid. Mind you, I would prefer a 7-11 range rather than 11-15.

[Fluffy]

I also think 3♣ minors is far better, not only takes away 1 cuebid, but most important, takes away a power double

[Free]

Sure, 2NT for both minors is an old hat (normally weaker but it's not much different. But I think 3♣ as both minors is much harder to defend against, I would almost consider playing 3♣ as both minors and 2NT as a club preempt.

I played it like that in the past, and enjoyed it pretty much :) Your ♣ preempts are less efficient and wrongside 3NT contracts, but the minor 2-suiter is really annoying when they only have 1 cuebid.

 

My responses were quite simple, everything natural except 3♥ as GF relay. Rebids:

3♠ = 3♠/2=0=(65)

3NT = 5521 (shortage unknown)

4m = 1=1=(65) (natural)

4♥ = 3♥/0=2=(65)

[blackshoe]

This thread reminds me of Hello, which is a defense to 1NT, a descendant of Cappeletti, rather than an opening method. In Hello, 2NT is a transfer to ♣ and 3♣ is both minors, and similarly 2♦ is a transfer to ♥ and 2♥ shows both majors. Hm. Hello as an opening bid system? Maybe, I dunno. :unsure: