ATB

[han]

I think the 1S overcall is losing bridge. Whether you get worked up over that depends on how much you want to win. Yes of course the 1S overcall will sometimes give you good results. Any random bid will sometimes give you good results. But this kind of bidding will in my experience in the long run be losing imps and matchpoints.

 

Hrothgar's argument that because he opens 1H on similar hands he doesn't mind the 1S overcall is completely nonsensical. I sometimes open 1D on xxx but that doesn't mean I will overcall 1D with that.

[hrothgar]

 

Hrothgar's argument that because he opens 1H on similar hands he doesn't mind the 1S overcall is completely nonsensical. I sometimes open 1D on xxx but that doesn't mean I will overcall 1D with that.

 

Some would say that there is a significant difference between a 1M opening that is designed to show a major and a 1m opening whose purpose is to deny holding a 5 card major.

[awm]

I'll just comment that I've made quite a few four-card overcalls like this one. My experience has been that it works pretty well when non-vulnerable and is generally bad when vulnerable. I've also not been impressed with the results from doubling with 4333 hands on minimum strength. I'd pass the south hand at these colors, and give south most of the blame for the bad results.

[mike777]

Help me settle an argument, and assign the blame :)

 

Imps

[hv=pc=n&s=skt74h962daj5ckq8&w=saj986hqt4dq63c63&n=sq532hj75dt9cj974&e=shak83dk8742cat52&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=1d(4+%21d)1s1n2sdppp]399|300[/hv]

-3 for 800

 

 

hate one spade

[Free]

I see some people prefer Dbl to 1♠ (as do I). What if the auction went:

1♦-Dbl-RDbl-1♠

p-p-Dbl-p

p-p

for -500. Would that be unlucky or still mostly South's fault? :)

[cloa513]

Agree with others that 2♠ is completely normal. 4 trumps, some shape, spades... not raising would be criminal.

 

I probably wouldn't even double with the South hand. All this talk about getting out of the auction quickly makes me wonder why others don't pass as well. Of course double is a lot better than 1♠, but I still prefer pass to either. The upside seems small and the potential downside, if opps redouble or partner makes an ill-timed competitive bid, is fairly large.

I don't think doubleton is good shape with Qxxx trump- the jack are pretty much worthless. Qxxx trumps and singleton is OK.

[hotShot]

I see some people prefer Dbl to 1♠ (as do I). What if the auction went:

1♦-Dbl-RDbl-1♠

p-p-Dbl-p

p-p

for -500. Would that be unlucky or still mostly South's fault? :)

[hv=pc=n&s=skt74h962daj5ckq8&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=1d(4+%21d)dr1sppp]133|200[/hv]

The south hand has 3 negative aspects to much HCP in opponents suit, unsuitable shape and the ♠ suit is one honor to weak.

By doubling you get rid of the bad spades aspect and a 5-0 trump break is very unlucky.

But the 5 HCP you hold in ♦ still don't help to develop one of partners suits to a source of tricks and you won't ruff or develop a length in your hand.

 

 

Take a look at this modified deal:

[hv=pc=n&s=skt74h962daj5ckq8&w=saj98hqt4dq632c63&n=sq532hj75dt9cj974&e=s6hak83dk874cat52&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=1d(4+%21d)1s1n2sdppp]399|300[/hv]

The ♠are 4-1 now and South is still down 3, it's not the 5-0 trump break that ruins your score.

[gwnn]

Then it would be unlucky. But I think it's weird to assume that West bid 1N over 1S (when there's a good chance of defending 1♠x) but he's happy to redouble when he only has one suit to penalise (and it's quite unlikely from his point of view that opps would end up in spades). I think it's a mistake to conceal a 5 card major over 1m-x-?. He even has a partial fit for his partner.

[phil_20686]

I really don't like either bid. When south has a normal over call like ATxxx AQx xxx xx I might escape for -1, but even with the heart finesse working and picking up the spade suit for one loser I have no chance to make, and that seems like a typical result to me. Nearly everyone I know plays 1N in this competitive sequence as 8-11. I don't see any value in bidding 2S at imps when opponents s have denied a heart fit and 3N seems unlikely to survive a spade lead if partner has an outside trick. At MP it just seems even worse as the probability of 2S seems high. If opponents to have the points for 3N then I am just giving them an extra chance to avoid a non making game and penalise me instead. If they dont I am sparing them a nasty partscore decision or play by putting my partner in a contract that likely has no play. As I understand it americans are a bit more conservative about what they overcall on, so perhaps they are prepared to countenance 2s here.

 

I don't really fancy 4 card overcalls generally, particularly at imps. They dilute your partners ability to make the right decision if lho makes a pre-emptive bid. 1d (1s) 3d and partner has 4 card support he will stretch here in case you are making game, this could easily fetch an axe for a trivial 800 when you were virtually beating 3d in your own hand. When you make a 4 card overcall and hit partner with a balanced hand and 4 card support like on this board you have scored a win. However, it seems typical (of the unsuitable hand south has) that even if the cards are friendly you have no play. You are unlucky because it would be hard for them to axe you when spades are 3-2, but you are probably going for 500 even then. With maximum luck you might escape for 200.

 

50% north for raising too aggressively (IMO) and 90% south for a terrible 1!s overcall.

 

EDIT: FWIW I think the south hand is a fairly obvious pass. I don't really like to dble with xxx hearts and such a defensive holding in rho's suit. A t/o dble here can often scare partner away from 3N when its right and play in 4h instead. Also, I think it might just be tempting partner to make the wrong decisions when I have no real offence in any suit. I would dble if I had fewer points in diamonds. KTxx AJx xxx KQx is an obvious dble to me.

[han]

I see some people prefer Dbl to 1♠ (as do I). What if the auction went:

1♦-Dbl-RDbl-1♠

p-p-Dbl-p

p-p

for -500. Would that be unlucky or still mostly South's fault? :)

 

I think it would be time to congratulate the opponents on their excellent judgement and agreements.