double or pass?

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&e=st3haj42d985ca843]133|100[/hv]

Dealer North, NV, MP

 

(P)   P   (P)   1N

(2♥*) X* (2♠) 3♦   *♥&♠ *4M invitational

3♠   ?

[jukmoi]

Double. We will get close to zero anyway if they make it. Anyway I think -2 is the most likely result in 3♠X.

[P_Marlowe]

X

 

And I dont care, if we play MP or IMPs.

 

If you dont try to go for blood with this one,

you will get pushed around.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[mtvesuvius]

I would Double. Your side has the Balance of Power, and then some. Partner should be leading a trump on this auction regardless of their holding. We can expect 2 - 2 1/2 tricks in our own hand, and partner opened 1N. It's important to punish opponents who bid too much, and as an added bonus, we don't have any other clear-cut call: 3N is out, and 4m is fishing for a perfecto.

[mcphee]

The dble of 2H in your toy dept was penalty. The next hand bid 2S (generally a fit of 3 cards) and partner, forgetting they opened 1NT a limited bid, volunteers 3D, next comes 3S. Only because this is MP can I allow for partners apparent lunacy, or my dble meant some other thing to partner. So I am going to assume partner has opened 1N with a good 5-6 bagger in D and a partial H fit like Kxx unsuitable for defending S perhaps. Say Qx Kxx AKQxx(x) Jx(x). It is not so clear cut we will get rich defending. I am confused with this 3D bid so I will charge ahead with the hopefull +130. It is possible they could do quite well in 3S.

[jillybean]

My double of 2♥ was not penalty, it shows one or both 4cM and invitational values.

 

I doubled 3♠, which came sailing home.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s7652h6da7632ckt9&w=saqhq7dkqjt4cq752&n=skj984hkt9853dcj6&e=st3haj42d985ca843]399|300[/hv]

[vuroth]

I really hate 1NT by partner, but I'm probably not mainstream and in the minority.

 

Tough to beat a 652 hand, not sure it's your fault they made. What's that old saying about if opps never make doubled contracts?

[TimG]

It's important to punish opponents who bid too much.

I agree, but this does not sound like such an auction to me. I think it is typical for intervenor to have extra shape on this auction; I don't find the actual 5602 to be at all unexpected. I still double too often at the table, perhaps a few more cases of opponents making and then diving for the 3♠ card to look up their 730 will cure me.

[kgr]

My double of 2♥ was not penalty, it shows one or both 4cM and invitational values.

I think this is ok if opps bid 2♣ for the majors and you DBL to show 1 4cMajor.

1NT-(2H)-DBL-(Pass)

??

But what should partner do now if eg 33, 32, 22 in Majors? He doesn't know if you have 4c♥ or ♠?

[jillybean]

I think this is ok if opps bid 2♣ for the majors and you DBL to show 1 4cMajor.

1NT-(2H)-DBL-(Pass)

??

But what should partner do now if eg 33, 32, 22 in Majors? He doesn't know if you have 4c♥ or ♠?

If the 2M overcall is natural he can often work out which major I have. If he has stoppers in both majors he can bid 2N otherwise he will be 3 of a minor.

Over a double of both majors we are likely not playing in a major but we want to compete to 2N or 3m.

[Fluffy]

Partner has some valuable info, he could had bid 3NT the round before instead of 3♦, or even this one althou after the double is more dubious. I don't mean it to be clearcut at all, but I think it is a decent alternative.

[han]

How on earth can you play that the double shows one or both majors???

[han]

I think the 1NT opening is very good btw.

[jillybean]

How on earth can you play that the double shows one or both majors???

Well, we do. 1N (2x) X is one or both majors, invitational values otherwise you have lost the ability to make

an invitational bid.

Now tell me why this is so shocking.

[han]

It's not shocking, just terrible to do so over a 2H overcall. How can partner make a sensible decision without knowing whether you have hearts or spades?

[jillybean]

It's not shocking, just terrible to do so over a 2H overcall. How can partner make a sensible decision without knowing whether you have hearts or spades?

I agree it's not ideal although sometimes partner can tell which major have. What is the alternative, pass and let them play in 2♥?

[kgr]

I agree it's not ideal although sometimes partner can tell which major have. What is the alternative, pass and let them play in 2♥?

Maybe DBL=Penalty and 2S is takeout?

[TimG]

I agree it's not ideal although sometimes partner can tell which major have. What is the alternative, pass and let them play in 2♥?

You could pass with an invitational 2=4=3=4 (or similar) and let opener make a takeout double when he has a doubleton heart. I don't mean to suggest it works every time.

 

Maybe DBL=Penalty and 2S is takeout?

You don't want to bid 2♠ for takeout when opener would like to defend 2♥ doubled.

[han]

I agree it's not ideal although sometimes partner can tell which major have. What is the alternative, pass and let them play in 2♥?

 

The alternative is defining more precisely what a double of 2H is.

 

The two usual meanings of a double of a (partly) natural 2H are "penalty" and "takeout". Maybe there is a better way to use the double, something complicated that I have never heard off. But I would certainly recommend playing only one of these, not both at the same time.

[mike777]

I agree it's not ideal although sometimes partner can tell which major have. What is the alternative, pass and let them play in 2♥?

 

 

I think it is better to play x as penalty or t/o one or the other....

[jillybean]

If you look at this auction, partner knows I have ♥'s.

[jillybean]

The alternative is defining more precisely what a double of 2H is.

 

The two usual meanings of a double of a (partly) natural 2H are "penalty" and "takeout". Maybe there is a better way to use the double, something complicated that I have never heard off. But I would certainly recommend playing only one of these, not both at the same time.

 

Playing 'standard' I think I would find a number of hands where I could not bid with invitational values. On this hand I can only double if I am playing double as penalty.

I haven't had a lot of experience playing invitational doubles but I also haven't had any disasters. On this hand after I double I am happy if partner leaves it in, if he bids 2♠ I will bid 2N.

[TimG]

I haven't had a lot of experience playing invitational doubles but I also haven't had any disasters.

Didn't you end up -730 on this deal?

[the hog]

I agree, but this does not sound like such an auction to me. I think it is typical for intervenor to have extra shape on this auction; I don't find the actual 5602 to be at all unexpected. I still double too often at the table, perhaps a few more cases of opponents making and then diving for the 3♠ card to look up their 730 will cure me.

 

I agree with Tim. I am not surprised at all that this contract made. I certainly would not double with this hand.

You are likely to get a S lead, so 3NT is cold.

[jillybean]

Didn't you end up -730 on this deal?

Yes, I should have said I haven't had any disasters until now although, I think it would likely end

in 3♠X no matter what we were playing.