slam hunt

[rq4mulae]

Secondary question: would you make the 3♥ bid holding ♠KQJ9 - ♥KT98xx - ♦KQ9 ?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

#1 I guess 6c+ means 6+ hearts.

#2 The answer depends partially on your agreement set, do you play Transfer / Texas transfer?

If you do, 4C is not needed to show a 2nd suit, simply start with 3D, followed by 3C.

So in the end my vote goes to 4C being a cue (we play mixed cues, so 4C could be 2nd round control

- but look at your cue bidding style, and you know the answer).

We also play, that the first cu showes an honor, so 4C showes values.

If you would play tranfer, than 2D - followed by a 4C would show a club shortage, a so called auto

splinter, so this would mean, so that would strength the case for 4C showing values.

 

Regarding your 2nd question - no, you have 4 spades, this means Stayman.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[gwnn]

Your hand has either 3 or 5 suits.

[mcphee]

So I assume 1N 3H, 3N 4C 3H being slamish. 4C is a cue bid for me as 3H should be single suited.

[mfa1010]

We need to know the system context.

 

Usually transfer then 4m is splinter. I would assume 4♣ was a cuebid still trying for slam in a hand w/o shortages.

[pooltuna]

Q1) I prefer 1st or 2nd round control Qs

Q2) given that partner has 2♥ you always have oppositional possible holdings that produce a trump loser and you have some quantity of holdings that guarantee 2 trump losers. With that and the higher frequency of 14 and 15 HCP holding I would not try to go past 4♥.

[Free]

- 1st or 2nd round control

- In order to respond to your 2nd question I need to be able to interprete the hand. What's the void??

[rq4mulae]

Thanks, Marlowe:

 

#1 I guess 6c+ means 6+ hearts.

 

Poll amended to clarify: yes, 6+ hearts

 

 

#2 The answer depends partially on your agreement set, do you play Transfer / Texas transfer?

If you do, 4C is not needed to show a 2nd suit, simply start with 3D, followed by 3C.

So in the end my vote goes to 4C being a cue (we play mixed cues, so 4C could be 2nd round control

- but look at your cue bidding style, and you know the answer).

We also play, that the first cu showes an honor, so 4C showes values.

If you would play tranfer, than 2D - followed by a 4C would show a club shortage, a so called auto

splinter, so this would mean, so that would strength the case for 4C showing values.

 

We play both Jacoby & Texas transfers but hand described would be too strong for Texas by mutual agreement. The idea of a jump into new suit as a splinter has some appeal, but would bypass spades in this case so might cause confusion if an attempt made later to show spade control.

 

 

Regarding your 2nd question - no, you have 4 spades, this means Stayman.

 

We reserve Stayman for 5-4 or 4-4 if holding both.

 

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[rq4mulae]

Your hand has either 3 or 5 suits.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, gwnn

So, you can't read what's written between my lines, where it's obvious to me? http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif

 

To be more specific: ♠ KQJ9 - ♥ KT98xx - ♦ KQ9

[rq4mulae]

So I assume 1N 3H, 3N 4C 3H being slamish. 4C is a cue bid for me as 3H should be single suited.

 

Thanks, mcphee:

 

That's a good point, and since this hand is not, it wouldn't qualify for 3♥ response by that standard.

[rq4mulae]

Thanks, mfa1010:

 

 

 

We need to know the system context.

 

Hand and auction occurred playing 2/1 but I know of no reason why it couldn't apply to SA as well, nor a version of K-S using transfers.

[rq4mulae]

Thanks, pooltuna:

 

 

Q2) given that partner has 2♥ you always have oppositional possible holdings that produce a trump loser and you have some quantity of holdings that guarantee 2 trump losers. With that and the higher frequency of 14 and 15 HCP holding I would not try to go past 4♥.

 

Very valid observation. And to me it suggests that Jacoby 2♦ is best 1st step - permitting a superaccept - and a jump rebid of 4♣ after 2♥ could not be harmful in case opener is loaded with club values.

[rq4mulae]

Thanks, free:

 

- In order to respond to your 2nd question I need to be able to interprete the hand. What's the void??

 

I'm learning to be more specific. http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif club void.

[mfa1010]

Thanks, mfa1010:

 

 

 

We need to know the system context.

 

Hand and auction occurred playing 2/1 but I know of no reason why it couldn't apply to SA as well, nor a version of K-S using transfers.

I was mostly thinking about NT structure.

 

Normally one shows a singlesuited slamtry with a shortage by transfer and then splinter:

1NT-2♦-2♥-4♣

 

With the actual hand I would not insist on hearts but instead show spades also:

1NT-2♦-2♥-2♠

or whatever NT structure I use.

[jikl]

1NT - 2♦ - 2♥* - 2♠

 

for me also. The reason for the * is that you can have the really good news of a super accept here.

 

Sean

[TWO4BRIDGE]

As for the 2nd Question...

 

A Stayman sequence seems obvious:

 

♠ KQJ9

♥ KT98xx

♦ KQ9

♣ void

 

1NT - 2C

2D - 3S ( Smolen, ostensibly 4s/5h )

3NT ( 3s/2h) - 4D! ( Texas-after-Smolen showing 4s/6h )

4H - ??

pass

4NT ( RKC for Hts)

5C!/5D! ( Exclusion)

[1eyedjack]

I don't have a strong opinion on the first question in the poll, as I do not normally play the 3H response that way.

As to the example hand in the follow-up, I use all direct 4-level responses to 1N as Roman Keycard Voidwood, so

 

1N-4C = void spade or {void club with long major} puppet to 4D

1N-4C-4D-4H = void club, puppet to 4S

1N-4C-4D-4H-4S-4N = exclusion RCKB with Hearts as trumps.

 

I recognise that Spades (or in an extreme case Diamonds) might actually play better, but I pay off to those occasions in favour of the increased accuracy when that is not the case. I could by a different route show a GF 4-5-3-1 hand (or similar) and then continue to force, but I am not convinced that relinquishing the captaincy is a good idea in this case.

[Siegmund]

If I play 3H as 6+ slammish, opener's rebids for me are cuebids; 3NT would specifically carry implications of the lack of a fitting trump honour; and the continuations would be cuebids. The 3H bid would absolutely never be a hand that still wants to discuss what trumps is. With 4-6-0-3, my system is 2C followed by 4D transfer over 2D.

[jdeegan]

Seems to me in the absence of some system agreement, 4♣ has to be a Q bid showing first round control, probably the ace. Pard's 3NT bid didn't improve my hand. If aces were all I needed to know, I would have bid 4♣ Gerber the first time. Sounds to me like the 4♣ bidder is saying: "I am still interested in a ♥ slam, and I need your opinion. Quick tricks, controls and a doubleton ♥ honor are gold. A soft and ratty 14 or 15 with a small doubleton ♥ should sign off."

[Phil]

4♣ is a cue conveying the message "I do not care you have poor support". If responder simply wanted to set trump and ace for key cards, he would have bid 4♦ and then 4N. Responder also has a flaw somewhere where asking for key cards is not practical, like a two-loser suit, or a void perhaps.

 

On the actual hand, responder made a poor choice with 3♥. What is wrong with 2♣?

 

I've never liked the 1N - 3M treatment as forcing and slammish. Isn't this one of the reasons we play transfers?

[skjaeran]

For me 3♥ would deny any shortness, and 4♣ would show a control; 1. or 2. rokke. And still slam interest.

[nige1]

Secondary question: would you make the 3♥ bid holding ♠KQJ9 - ♥KT98xx - ♦KQ9 ?

IMO

• A sensible use for 4♣ is RKC Gerber for ♥. Alternatively it could be a cue, setting ♥ as trumps.
• With 46 in the majors you could start with Stayman or a Transfer.

[Cascade]

I've never liked the 1N - 3M treatment as forcing and slammish. Isn't this one of the reasons we play transfers?

 

So do you play transfer then 3M = slammish or do you do something else with those hands?

 

I don't see how it matters how you fit everything in - you will still be at 3M when you have indicated your suit and hand type. Perhaps occasionally you would prefer partner played the hand and need the transfer affect but this is often needed when both hands are strong.

[lexlogan]

4♣ is a cue conveying the message "I do not care you have poor support". If responder simply wanted to set trump and ace for key cards, he would have bid 4♦ and then 4N. Responder also has a flaw somewhere where asking for key cards is not practical, like a two-loser suit, or a void perhaps.

 

On the actual hand, responder made a poor choice with 3♥. What is wrong with 2♣?

 

I've never liked the 1N - 3M treatment as forcing and slammish. Isn't this one of the reasons we play transfers?

 

Agree 4C is cue-bid with 6 card suit. For me it does not promise 1st round control, it can be Ace or King. It will not be a short suit since I could transfer then jump as an autosplinter.

 

1NT-3M is quite valuable for slam interest hands with no singleton and no side suit. If you start with a transfer, you have to follow with 4M (6+ card suit) or 4NT (5332) to show slam interest, neither of which is forcing and both of which eliminate your below-game cue-bidding room. I define 1NT-3M as "single-suited slam try, usually no singleton or void." The given hand of course should start with Stayman since a 4-4 spade fit would be preferred.

[Zelandakh]

So do you play transfer then 3M = slammish or do you do something else with those hands?

 

I don't see how it matters how you fit everything in - you will still be at 3M when you have indicated your suit and hand type. Perhaps occasionally you would prefer partner played the hand and need the transfer affect but this is often needed when both hands are strong.

You can get around using 1NT - 3M for this by using a 2-way follow-up after a transfer. So, for me, 1NT - 2D - 2H - 2S is a range ask usually showing a simple 2NT rebid but can also be the 1-suited slam hand. Similarly 1NT - 2H - 2S - 3C can be either a normal 3D rebid or 1-suited and slammy. You are giving something up here but gaining the immediate 3M responses to show, for example, shortage - a reasonable trade-off imho. Of course you are correct in arriving at the same point, at the 3 level, after showing hand type.