Do you overcall 1 diamond?

[OleBerg]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk76hqj43dk9852c3&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=pp1c]133|200[/hv]

 

Imps

[MrAce]

I do, and i may even double depending on my mood :D

 

But since pd is coming from pass, ♦ fit is as good as a major fit since our goal is to play partscore. So i bid my longest suit.

[rduran1216]

Do I really want it to go 1C 1D 1N p 3N and have my partner lead a diamond?

 

I think this is closer to a takeout dbl, but idk what id do at the table.

[P_Marlowe]

X.

 

This will increase the odds, that we can outcompete them.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[andy_h]

Double.

[mfa1010]

Overcalling is dubious, but bidders just have more fun.

Can't X with so little.

[hotShot]

Our agreements about T/O dbls is that they promise points, while (jump) overcalls can be (very) light.

A 1♦ overcall is not annoying enough, so within our style, I bid 2♦ promising 5+card in diamonds, a shaped hand and about 10+ HCP.

[dake50]

Vs their 1m, I use Overcall Structure modified.

Here 2C is 4-14 3+ in unbids, offensive hand (not 3+DT). I try that.

[gwnn]

sure, 1♦. MFA said it well.

[Hanoi5]

I'd prefer 1♦ than double. The problem with double is that in this position it can easily be taken as a much stronger hand, due to the normal weak openings in third position. I've often doubled with sub.-minimum hands in that position and gotten an ill result when partner misjudges the situation and doubles them or competes to an impossible level.

[mcphee]

I would prefer to make a t/o dble than I would over call. Saying dble is a bit busy imo, 1D just not my thing, even at pairs I would pass.

[mtvesuvius]

1♦. Bad things happen when I double with hands like this.

[kayin801]

1♦. If I were a passed hand, easy X

[phil_20686]

Dbling seems really bad. You are losing a lot when partner has to decide to bid 3N or not, say after 1c x 3c and partner has a flattish 12 or 13 count, you want to be in 3N opposite a real t/o dble, opposite this hand could be dbled for 500. Also, I'm not sure where the gain is particularly, if partner has a decent hand there is a good chance he can get it into the aucction by h8imself, if he has a worse hand with 5 or 6 spades he may just compete too high. Routine for him to bid 4s opposite a t/u sble with AQxxxx xxx x xxx say, and could just be giving the opps an easy dble.

 

1D OTOH, seems pretty normal. I have some reasonable values so if we do defend 3N i really do want a diamond lead. Sure I can construct hands where parther has QJxxx spades and Ax diamonds or something where A and another diamond gives up the 9th trick and a "normal" spade trivially beats game, but they arent nearly as frequent as the hands where partner has Hx diamond and would never lead one without the overcall, not to mention that sometimes you will want to play this hand in a diamond partscore, and the nuisance value of bidding at all should not be underestimated.

[mikeh]

I pass

 

Double: sounds like fun, but tends to destroy partnerships when one takes such misleading, unilateral action. Does anyone really have a style in which double includes this hand?

 

1♦: well, 1♦ is anti-preemptive in that it creates bidding space for the opps, rather than destroying it. LHO can show both majors at once via a negative double, and his 1N takes on a more defined meaning, so one should have a reason for introducing diamonds....one should feel, for example, that a diamond lead against notrump is best. Yet with our majors, we'd be happy if partner felt, on an uncontested auction, that a major suit was better.

 

And we have support for both majors, and yet want to encourage partner to bid/raise diamonds when we have a poor suit, and a weak, soft hand? Not me.

 

Bidders may have more fun most of the time, but smart bidders have even more fun and fewer regrets.

 

I'm a passer for now....but maybe I'll get another chance, and, if not, I doubt I'll be unhappy.

[rduran1216]

partner is a passed hand?

 

So what exactly are we worried about if we dbl?

[Hanoi5]

partner is a passed hand?

 

So what exactly are we worried about if we dbl?

 

Say it continues:

 

P P 1♣ X

4♠

 

And your partner holding:

 

♠Ax

♥xxx

♦AQxx

♣xxxx

 

decides to double. Diamonds are 4-0. And this is a extreme case, more horrible things could happen.

[mikeh]

partner is a passed hand?

 

So what exactly are we worried about if we dbl?

partner playing us for a takeout double hand?

 

Maybe your partners don't make aggressive decisions based on trusting you to have what you announced. Mine do. And when I don't have them, we pay the price.

 

I continue to be surprised by posts like yours....partner is a passed hand so we can do whatever we want with impunity. Nonsense.

[pooltuna]

partner playing us for a takeout double hand?

 

Maybe your partners don't make aggressive decisions based on trusting you to have what you announced. Mine do. And when I don't have them, we pay the price.

 

I continue to be surprised by posts like yours....partner is a passed hand so we can do whatever we want with impunity. Nonsense.

 

 

WHAT!!! YOU MEAN WE ARE EXPECTED TO HAVE HCP AND DEFENSIVE VALUES FOR A TOX...HOW SHOCKING!!!!!!

 

AND PARTNER HOW IS HE A PROBLEM AFTER ALL I BID HIS HAND FOR HIM :)

 

If I chose not to pass I would bid 2♦ rather than 1... hmmm let me think about 3 ♦ :)

[rduran1216]

partner is a passed hand, its imps, partner knows I have more leeway to compete if he's a passed hand.

 

How about when partner has 4 hearts and a 9 count. How are we gonna compete to 3H if I start with 1D?

 

If it goes p p 1c x 4s and my partner decides to dbl with a 10 count at imps, he's asking for trouble.

 

I'm ok with 1D or dbl, but would lean towards dbl. Partner is gonna figure out I dont have an opening hand if they bid to game.

[xxhong]

partner is a passed hand, its imps, partner knows I have more leeway to compete if he's a passed hand.

 

How about when partner has 4 hearts and a 9 count. How are we gonna compete to 3H if I start with 1D?

 

If it goes p p 1c x 4s and my partner decides to dbl with a 10 count at imps, he's asking for trouble.

 

I'm ok with 1D or dbl, but would lean towards dbl. Partner is gonna figure out I dont have an opening hand if they bid to game.

 

I think you should pre-alert your light doubling style if you and your partner have such kind of agreement on very light takeout doubles. Most play take-out doubles to show at least opening values.

[gnasher]

If this isn't a takeout double, I'm sure it's a pass. 1♦ is horribly misdescriptive, and has no preemptive value.

 

Is it a takeout double? Not really, but maybe we should do it anyway. If we're going to compete, it's more effective to do it straight away rather than letting them exchange information first. If it starts

pass-pass-1

♣

-pass

1

♠

-pass-1NT/2

♣

/2

♠

I'll regret not having acted earlier.

 

The main danger is that partner doubles them at the end of a competitive auction, expecting me to have more defence, but at IMPs he won't be quick on the trigger. Being opposite a passed hand does reduce the risk: partner is less likely either to double them or to overcompete, simply because it is less likely that he has a suitable hand for such action.

 

Some of the scenarios suggested in this thread seem quite unlikely. Have some of the posters missed that partner and LHO are both passed hands? I can't picture a hand that would pass in first seat, then jump to 4♠ after pass-pass-1♣-dbl. And I don't know anybody that passes balanced 12- or 13-counts.

[mtvesuvius]

When you double:

• You ruin partnership trust
  
• You grossly mis-state your values
  
• Partner will be bidding, and competing, expecting you to have something
  
• Partner may double expecting more than -1 tricks in your hand
  
• There will be more 4 digit numbers on your card, and not all from declaring.
  

 

Did I mention that doubling with Ax xxx AQxx xxxx after 1♣ - X - 4♠ is normal?

 

Even 1♦ probably isn't best, but I'm not convinced it's right to pass.

[ggwhiz]

partner is a passed hand, its imps, partner knows I have more leeway to compete if he's a passed hand.

 

How about when partner has 4 hearts and a 9 count. How are we gonna compete to 3H if I start with 1D?

 

Compete? You are outgunned. If I double with my pard and this dreck, the over under is -800.

 

Pass is sane but I've been known to chuck in 1♦.

[kayin801]

Sometimes partner has diamonds too and can preempt? Sometimes opener has a 3316 17 count and the auction goes 1♣-1♦-X-4♦ or he has 4315 and responder bid 1♥? If we pass or X they'll find any major suit fit they had anyway. I don't really think we're getting a plus score on this but some times we can get a better minus than we would, and I think 1♦ is the best way to help us muddle their auction with partner's help while providing the least risk to us.