Climate change

[Al_U_Card]

Is it doomsday yet? It's freaking cold here and I am getting tired of waiting around for that global warming to finally show up... :angry:;)

Still cold (6C below "normal" for the month so far) and we got down to -16 last night. Britain had quite a few additional "cold" deaths this winter and the PTB are suggesting that people heat 1 room adequately and try to spend their time there.... expensive, unreliable, subsidized "green" energy .... cui bono?

[Al_U_Card]

Only a Nobel laureate but even 8 years ago, he could see the real nature of the problem

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1FnWFlDvxE

[hrothgar]

Only a Nobel laureate but even 8 years ago, he could see the real nature of the problem

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1FnWFlDvxE

 

Kary Mullis also denies that HIV causes AIDs and believes in astrology...

[Al_U_Card]

Kary Mullis also denies that HIV causes AIDs and believes in astrology...

So he's smarter than you then....

[Al_U_Card]

And he never once had to stoop to an adhom because his argument was intelligent and factual, unlike your typical, low-brow screed. Try to up your game if you want to participate with those that can follow along.

[hrothgar]

And he never once had to stoop to an adhom because his argument was intelligent and factual, unlike your typical, low-brow screed. Try to up your game if you want to participate with those that can follow along.

 

Al, I understand why a piece of ***** LaRouchie like you has such an issue with ad hominem attacks.

 

Its must be galling for people to use your lunatic 9/11 theories and use them to dismiss your equally inane ideas about global warming.

For the rest of us, its a very convenient short cut.

 

And, while you might not like this, its the way the world works.

 

For better or worse, the D and F students aren't the ones whose opinions we care about we considering complicated and technical topics.

 

The entire discipline of machine learning is nothing more than a massively distributed ad hominen attack.

We down weight things that consistently say stupid stuff and listen to those things that give good advice.

[y66]

I understand the frustration. I don't like the abusive language and I don't understand why this is tolerated. Please clean it up or get the f**k out of the WC.

[Al_U_Card]

Clearly, without recourse to a logical and rational argument, the insecure and ineffectual resort to the low road.

[MrAce]

Al, logical and rational argument with you is useless.

 

You're goal here isn't to have a discussion, its to troll.

 

 

So in turn, you get abuse.

 

I really don't understand your contradictious comments about this guy. He is either a troll or not.

 

A-He is not a troll and you are insulting him just because he does not share your views.

B-He is indeed a troll and you keep providing butter for his bread.

 

Take your pick which is worse.

I mean if he is a troll, he must be one of the best because almost a decade after you called him troll the first time, he still manages to drag you and others down to the topics he lurks and he pretty much runs the show in those topics. Also, if he is a troll as you say he is, the things you call "abuse to him" is what he seeks. This is like trying to apply pain to a masochist and expect to upset him! He won't be upset. He will enjoy it. Not sure at which point will you recognize this, if ever?

[Al_U_Card]

Not engaging with being called a troll is a sign. Calm, rational discussion, backed with facts (as contentious as they may be) is another. Persistence has less to do with acceptance and more to do with the depth, breadth and importance of the subject. Is Winston a troll, for dominating a thread with his anti-Trump fixation? Does sharing his feelings and opinion alter that situation? Debating the points raised to support a position is not trolling, especially when others with a decent and respectful approach are engaged with alacrity. Abusive and destructive (to the person or the discussion) commentary is more trolling than anything else...

[hrothgar]

Does sharing his feelings and opinion alter that situation? Debating the points raised to support a position is not trolling, especially when others with a decent and respectful approach are engaged with alacrity. Abusive and destructive (to the person or the discussion) commentary is more trolling than anything else...

 

Al, this is a frakking bridge site.

 

And you've spent 15 years posting 9/11 conspiracy theories and global warming boiler plate.

When was the last time that you posted ANYTHING related to bridge?

 

And now you try to claim that you're not a troll simply because you avoid abusive language...

[hrothgar]

Is Winston a troll, for dominating a thread with his anti-Trump fixation? Does sharing his feelings and opinion alter that situation?

 

1. Winston recognizes that this is a bridge site. Most of his postings are bridge related

 

2. Winston actually engages in debate. His posts are an attempt to generate discussion rather than a never ending gish gallop

 

3. Winston has an internally coherent world view. Your posts are inherently contradictory. Yes, they all criticize global warming, but the mechanisms and methods that they use can not put into a self consistent framework. If one holds true, most of the rest of them must be false.

 

4. You have admitted to knowing posting factually incorrect information that you hope will support your case. You're not involved in an honest discussion.

[Winstonm]

Is Winston a troll, for dominating a thread with his anti-Trump fixation?

 

I'm not sure if you can grasp this - seemingly not but here goes - but "anti-Trump fixation" is your perception about what I have written.

In reality, I am pro-America and pro-democracy, which makes me automatically anti-Trump. My fixation is not on Trump but on protecting America, American values, American political norms, and American democracy from the onslaught of a grifter.

 

That you perceive my position as an "anti-trump fixation" explains your politics, not whether or not you troll the net.

[Al_U_Card]

I'm not sure if you can grasp this - seemingly not but here goes - but "anti-Trump fixation" is your perception about what I have written.

In reality, I am pro-America and pro-democracy, which makes me automatically anti-Trump. My fixation is not on Trump but on protecting America, American values, American political norms, and American democracy from the onslaught of a grifter.

 

That you perceive my position as an "anti-trump fixation" explains your politics, not whether or not you troll the net.

So, once you've stated your position and provided supporting documentation, isn't that enough? Do you engage with people that denigrate you or do you prefer to elaborate points based on constructive input even if it is contrary to your position? Don't be too condescending, the topic is different but the approach that you seem to loathe is the same one that you use.

[Winstonm]

So, once you've stated your position and provided supporting documentation, isn't that enough? Do you engage with people that denigrate you or do you prefer to elaborate points based on constructive input even if it is contrary to your position? Don't be too condescending, the topic is different but the approach that you seem to loathe is the same one that you use.

 

If you don't like the Trump thread, don't participate.

[Al_U_Card]

If you don't like the Trump thread, don't participate.

Ditto

[Al_U_Card]

And now, back to our regularly scheduled deprogramming... the ice melt season has been underway for a few weeks and it appears about normal for the reference period so it better hurry up or Al Gore and the prophets of (arctic ice) doom will have to get a rain (snow?) check.

 

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icedrift_anim/plots/satcon.arc.d-00.png

[johnu]

And now, back to our regularly scheduled deprogramming... the ice melt season has been underway for a few weeks and it appears about normal for the reference period so it better hurry up or Al Gore and the prophets of (arctic ice) doom will have to get a rain (snow?) check.

 

This is a very insightful. I am going to set my season calendar to "Spring". I was beginning to wonder why there weren't any freezing temperatures the past couple of months. Do you think that temperatures will get even warmer in July and August?

[Winstonm]

And he never once had to stoop to an adhom because his argument was intelligent and factual, unlike your typical, low-brow screed. Try to up your game if you want to participate with those that can follow along.

 

I have a beef with this post. I've argued with a lot of the religious and I get tired of hearing cries of "ad hominem" when no such thing occurred.

 

Richard was replying to the argument you presented that the climate change views from 2010 of a Nobel Prize-winning biochemist should somehow be recognized as "expert testimony", if you will. He did not attack you in his response but simply pointed out that your "expert" had other beliefs that were considered superstitions of the ignorant, at best.

 

That is a valid counter-argument to your assertion of "he's an expert". No one has to respond to the claims in the Mullis video because he didn't make the argument. To have been a true ad hominem attack, he would have had to say along the lines of, "Don't listen to Al because he's an idiot".

 

Truth be told, you were the one who made the ad hominem attack in your next post calling Richard less smart than your "expert", and it is you who should apologize to him.

[Al_U_Card]

This is a very insightful. I am going to set my season calendar to "Spring". I was beginning to wonder why there weren't any freezing temperatures the past couple of months. Do you think that temperatures will get even warmer in July and August?

Just a reminder of all the scare stories about the summer disappearance of Arctic ice by....2013, 2017 etc. One specific atmospheric condition that lowered ice in 2007 and again in 2012 are neither global warming nor catastrophic, just weather. And unlikely to be caused by a few extra moles of CO2 in the atmosphere. As for July and August, if they vary "normally" are the cold periods weather and the warm periods climate? That is what alarmists would have us believe because the models say to expect it .... even if that is what they are programmed to specifically say.

[Al_U_Card]

I have a beef with this post. I've argued with a lot of the religious and I get tired of hearing cries of "ad hominem" when no such thing occurred.

 

Richard was replying to the argument you presented that the climate change views from 2010 of a Nobel Prize-winning biochemist should somehow be recognized as "expert testimony", if you will. He did not attack you in his response but simply pointed out that your "expert" had other beliefs that were considered superstitions of the ignorant, at best.

 

That is a valid counter-argument to your assertion of "he's an expert". No one has to respond to the claims in the Mullis video because he didn't make the argument. To have been a true ad hominem attack, he would have had to say along the lines of, "Don't listen to Al because he's an idiot".

 

Truth be told, you were the one who made the ad hominem attack in your next post calling Richard less smart than your "expert", and it is you who should apologize to him.

Or Wil Happer, or Freeman Dyson or even Richard Lindzen (a real, honest to goodness climatologist) all of whom are way smarter than all of us. Obama got a Nobel although it was before he had a chance to do anything so its value is overrated. Nobel prizes aside, even a strawman can be knocked down, if it makes you feel better. And one Nobel prize beats no Nobel prize AFAIK.

[Al_U_Card]

Speaking of Nobel laureates (2 to 0 and counting) ...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEYuYCKv5Vo

[Winstonm]

NYT:

 

By Brad Plumer

 

May 15, 2018

WASHINGTON — In the Trump era, it has mainly been blue states that have taken the lead on climate change policy, with liberal strongholds like California and New York setting ambitious goals for cutting greenhouse gas emissions.

 

Now, at least one deep-red state could soon join them: Alaska, a major oil and gas producer, is crafting its own plan to address climate change. Ideas under discussion include cuts in state emissions by 2025 and a tax on companies that emit carbon dioxide.

 

While many conservative-leaning states have resisted aggressive climate policies, Alaska is already seeing the dramatic effects of global warming firsthand, making the issue difficult for local politicians to avoid. The solid permafrost that sits beneath many roads, buildings and pipelines is starting to thaw, destabilizing the infrastructure above. At least 31 coastal towns and cities may need to relocate, at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars, as protective sea ice vanishes and fierce waves erode Alaska’s shores.

[Al_U_Card]

A tax ... hmmmnnn

[johnu]

Speaking of Nobel laureates (2 to 0 and counting) ...

 

Congressional Expert on Global Warming

 

Rocks falling into the sea is the reason for rising sea levels according to Republican Mo Brooks of Alabama. I've looked at this theory for hours and can't see any flaws in this reasoning. I'm going to put out another cause for rising sea levels and that is the increasing numbers of people going to the beach and taking a wiz in the water because of the hotter (which hasn't been scientifically proven) weather.