Round 4, Hands 15 and 16

[inquiry]

[hv=pc=n&s=st9hak7dt96cakq87&n=s7ht8653dakq3c653]133|200|Board 15, South Deals, N-S vul

 

East overcalls 4S if north shows hearts at the two level, he overcalls 3S if north shows hearts at the one level

 

4Sx three times

5HS once[/hv]

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sq2haq842dak7cj83&n=skj96htdqj86cakq9]133|200|Board 16, West Deals, Vul E-W

 

E-W do not bid

 

3NS tiwce

6CN

6NS[/hv]

[mike777]

15=4sx for me

 

 

bd 16=3nt for me

 

 

1nt=2c

2h=3nt

[han]

I overheard the following discussion in the restroom:

 

"Hey, what did you do on board 15?"

 

"On 15? We got to 4H."

 

"What do you mean 4H, they overcall 4S..."

 

"Against us they didn't, they bid only 3S."

 

"What, how's that possible?"

 

"How should I know?"

 

"Oh well, we still make 5H if trumps split 3-2."

 

"They don't."

 

"What do you mean, they don't?"

 

"They didn't bid 4S over 4H, white against red, and holding 10 spades, surely west has 4+ hearts!"

 

"Well against us they did bid 4.... You know what I think?"

 

"Yes, I think you got f*cked!"

 

 

I really dislike this bidding script.

[kayin801]

Ben, do you have a copy of the bidding that each pair did? A) for reference, and B ), because Han's little story is what happened to us, if my memory serves me:

 

1♣-(P)-1♠-(3♠)

4♥-(4♠)-5♥-AP

 

1♣ was strong and 1♠ showed a GF with 5+ ♥s

 

I'm okay with our bidding so long as that's what the script was intended to be (a raise to 4♠)

[TylerE]

1N-p-2D-(4s)-p-p-X for us.

[han]

Ben, do you have a copy of the bidding that each pair did? A) for reference, and B ), because Han's little story is what happened to us, if my memory serves me:

 

1♣-(P)-1♠-(3♠)

4♥-(4♠)-5♥-AP

 

1♣ was strong and 1♠ showed a GF with 5+ ♥s

 

I'm okay with our bidding so long as that's what the script was intended to be (a raise to 4♠)

 

As far as I know there was no raise to 4S in the bidding script.

 

I suggest this whole hand is thrown out because (a) the bidding script was unfair to begin with, and (B) the script was not followed at kayin801's table.

 

I would also like to ask Ben to use bidding scripts where EW bid the same at each table, at least as much as possible. Of course "west opens or overcalls 1S if possible, and if so, east raises to 2S if possible" is fine, even if it means that a pair opening at the 2-level will not have any intervention. But a script where at one table EW overcall 3S and at another table overcall 4S is unfair and also completely irrational. I cannot imagine that there has ever been such a script in challenge the champs, and for good reasons.

 

I complained about the script in the last round where EW overcalled 1S after a 1D opening, but doubled a 1C opening. That was bad. This is way worse.

 

I'd like to add that I love this bidding poll format, that I think that inquiry is doing a great job and that I hope my criticism is only seen as an attempt to get rid of what I think as unavoidable start-up mistakes. I would also like to encourage all forum members who are not bidding in a given round to send interesting bidding hands to inquiry, especially hands that are not too random (like a hand where 7NT is good because somebody singleton that happens to be the stiff 9) and where one contract is clearly best.

[han]

By the way Kayin, I don't like the 5H bid. Having shown 5+ hearts already, I would not go out of my way to rebid my ten-fifth at the five level, especially given that a forcing pass was available.

[TimG]

I complained about the script in the last round where EW overcalled 1S after a 1D opening, but doubled a 1C opening. That was bad. This is way worse.

 

I'd like to add that I love this bidding poll format, that I think that inquiry is doing a great job and that I hope my criticism is only seen as an attempt to get rid of what I think as unavoidable start-up mistakes.

 

I agree with Han, then and now. The enemy bidding should be rather simple and straightforward, not depending much upon the actions of the contestants.

[gnasher]

If the script wasn't followed at one table, the correct procedure is to throw out that result, but keep the scores for the other pairs that bid the hand, and factor the scores accordingly. I think there was a deal in an earlier round where that's what was done.

 

I don't think we should even be considering throwing out a deal because the script is perceived to be unrealistic - that way lies chaos. Anyway, this is one of the few deals we actually did something sensible.

[han]

I'm not suggesting throwing out the hand because the script is unrealistic, but rather because the script is absurd and unfair.

 

I'm sorry you did not do badly on the hand I want to have thrown out.

[kayin801]

Or you could just let us play 4♥ :D

[inquiry]

I am not quite sure what to do about the complaints, so I will show the scores I have on 15. This could in theory will not affect the overall winner, as the top two pairs both reached 4♠X.

 

4♠x rates to be down three (-500). So the question is what does 5♥ earn? Until we decide if we need to do something about the bidding script, we will leave this as an 8 for everyone (5♥ should make often enough to not be bad).

 

Since the leading pairs bid the same, no effect on the running.

 

Board 16.

Six notrump in a great spot (reached by the Goodwins), 3NT is the best game contract, and both 6♣/♦ are nice contracts. I rated 6NT as the top spot, earning a 10, 6♣ makes about 3/4th of the time or so, earning an 8, this makes 3NT below average, I had assigned this a 5.

 

This scoring is unofficial, but if the scores on all the board standup, the Goodwin's edged TylerE-BidEmUp. Now it is the time to discuss the scoring, etc, as we want the best pair to advance to crush Jlall and han (er, I mean to challenge them).