Riton opening problem

[mgoetze]

You are playing 2/1 GF with Riton, i.e. an opening of 2♥ shows 11-15 with 5+ hearts and 4+ clubs, whereas a rebid of 2♣ after a 1♥ opening shows 16-18 points, any distribution. You deal yourself:

 

♠- ♥AQJTxx ♦xxx ♣AQxx

[hotShot]

Is that a trick question?

 

2♥ shows 11-15 with 5+ hearts and 4+ clubs,

I hold 11-15 (13) with 5+ (6) hearts and 4+ clubs.

 

Sometimes you actually hold a maximum....

[the hog]

Is that a trick question?

 

2♥ shows 11-15 with 5+ hearts and 4+ clubs,

I hold 11-15 (13) with 5+ (6) hearts and 4+ clubs.

 

Sometimes you actually hold a maximum....

 

I agree with Hotshot. If you have a bid for the hand you hold, why not use it?

[andy_h]

If my clubs were AQJx I would treat that hand as in the 16-18 range. But as it is, I would open 2H.

[Free]

It's a nice hand, but if you play a system like this you just open 2♥ and cope with it. This is one of the reasons why I don't like such openings. If opps intervene you can still bid another number of ♥ on your own (or Dbl) to show your good offensive hand. That's a reason why I like such openings. (so I have mixed feelings :rolleyes: )

 

I didn't have a button to abstain from the second poll, so I just voted 2♥ without much thought.

[awm]

I confess I don't know Riton's methods that well. However, it seems like the 2♥ opening should show a hand that in standard bidding, would open 1♥, rebid 2♣, and pass partner's 2♥ correction. I believe that this hand fails on the last count (I would bid 3♥ after 1♥-1N-2♣-2♥). It's quite easy to construct hands where you'd miss a good game or slam after the 2♥ opening, which could be a much weaker offensive hand.

 

Playing Gazzilli, I can open 1♥ and rebid 2N to show a hand with 6♥-4m and about 5 losers, which seems a perfect description of this hand. Since Riton has removed the minimum ♥/♣ hand from consideration, it seems you should be better placed. How do you use 1♥-1N-2N? If you're really using the 2♣ rebid to show precisely 16-18 (rather than 16+) that seems mildly wasteful... one of the big advantages of this type of method is having a way to show good 6/4 and 5/5 hands that might miss a game or land in the wrong contract playing 2/1 (typically by getting passed in the second suit at the two-level).

[mgoetze]

I confess I don't know Riton's methods that well. However, it seems like the 2♥ opening should show a hand that in standard bidding, would open 1♥, rebid 2♣, and pass partner's 2♥ correction. I believe that this hand fails on the last count (I would bid 3♥ after 1♥-1N-2♣-2♥). It's quite easy to construct hands where you'd miss a good game or slam after the 2♥ opening, which could be a much weaker offensive hand.

 

Playing Gazzilli, I can open 1♥ and rebid 2N to show a hand with 6♥-4m and about 5 losers, which seems a perfect description of this hand. Since Riton has removed the minimum ♥/♣ hand from consideration, it seems you should be better placed. How do you use 1♥-1N-2N? If you're really using the 2♣ rebid to show precisely 16-18 (rather than 16+) that seems mildly wasteful... one of the big advantages of this type of method is having a way to show good 6/4 and 5/5 hands that might miss a game or land in the wrong contract playing 2/1 (typically by getting passed in the second suit at the two-level).

 

Currently, I have 1♥-1NT-2NT defined as showing 17-18(19) balanced, rebidding 2♣ only with unbalanced hands. Whether this makes sense is a good question.

 

I have indeed been thinking about this aspect of Riton vs. Gazzilli recently, and maybe jumping with intermediate hands and having the 2♣ rebid unlimited (well, up to a 2♣ opening) does make more sense. I'm quite open to arguments on this topic. ;)